Geisler's Christmas Carol

If you are not familiar with the present controversy involving Mike Licona and Norman Geisler, it is one well worth being acquainted with. The results could well affect the health of the church for many years to come. You can read all the details on postings I have made on my blog; the subject entry link is

http://tektonticker.blogspot.com/search/label/Norman%20Geisler%3B%20inerrancy...

Entries will be in reverse chronological order. In this description we will provide only a summary "information key" corresponding with the film.

:35 Geisler had written Licona privately asking for answers on these issues. Licona had informed him that with various commitments -- debate preparations, and a vacation among them -- he would not respond quickly. Geisler nevertheless took it upon himself to post an "open letter" concerning the matter before Licona could respond.

1:31 While I do disagree with Licona's reading of Matthew 27, his reasoning in terms of inerrancy is sound. Please see the Ticker postings for details.

1:58 Licona offered an invitation to Geisler to attend a conference to discuss these issues. Geisler declined, under the premise that it was in essence a case of foxes guarding the henhouse.

2:13 Geisler has repeatedly deleted challenges to his arguments (including mine) from his Facebook page.

2:40 Despite his tactics, Geisler has professed to be acting in brotherly love.

2:57 Because of Geisler, Licona -- one of today's leading apologists and defenders of the faith -- was "disinvited" from a conference in New Orleans, as well as other functions.

3:30 In 1983, Geisler similarly oppressed Robert Gundry for his argument than Matthew intended for his Gospel to be understood as midrash -- a sort of Jewish commentary on other Scriptures -- rather than literal history. While we also do not agree with this view, if Matthew did intend his Gospel to be understood this way, then Gundry is not arguing against inerrancy.

That said, though Geisler has made much of alleged comparisons between that situation and this one, there were more than 1,600 present at that meeting, and the final vote was 116 to 41 in favor of Gundry being ousted, which is hardly overwhelming (less than 10% of the voting bloc). It suggests that the overwhelming majority either didn't care or didn't know what to think. It should also be noted that Geisler himself left ETS some years later under the premise that it was headed in the wrong direction.

I should also confess to an error: I used a recent picture of Robert Gundry and assumed that while he is bald now, he must not have been in 1983. I found out too late that he was bald even back then. I hope he doesn't mind the fresh mop.

4:51 Those scholars who have supported Licona include (pictured left to right, bottom row): Daniel Wallace, Edwin Yamauchi (member of the inerrancy committee), Gary Habermas, and Paul Copan. Standing at right is J. P. Moreland (also on the committee). Standing at left are Nick and Allie Peters, the (modified) voices of the Ghosts of Inerrancy Future and Past, respectively, and also Licona's son in law and daughter.

5:18 Supporting Geisler have been (left to right) Al Mohler, and two bloggers, pastor Tim Rogers, and Ed Dingess.

6:30 Some real concerns indeed, if Geisler takes the day (see my "high stakes" post).

Category:

Education

Tags:

• Norman Geisler
• Mike Licona
• apologetics
• inerrancy
• Bible
• Jesus
• Resurrection
• Christmas Carol

[DrFactChecker]

To accuse Dr. Geisler of not being logical or factual is like accusing Aristotle of being an emotional reasoner. This video does not accurately represent Dr. Geisler's arguments. Where is Dr. Licona rebuttal of Dr. Geisler argument? See Dr. Geisler's logical argument on his normangeisler website.

[tektontv]

@DrFactChecker Oh please. That's why there are links in the vid description -- page after page of posting answering Geisler on the inerrancy issue and showing where he errs on fact and logic related to those points, as related on his webiste, and showing the accuracy of this vid. Some "FactChecker". Maybe you should rebrand yourself as ChickenInspector. Better yet, stop drinking the Geisler Kool Aid and mindlessly defending him.

[dbferguson12]

What a bunch of boobs. This is the reason I have friends who laugh at Christians (including myself) because of idiotic arguments about garbage. Tell Dr. Geisler to live in Rwanda, Africa for 2 years and then see how his perspective changes. I almost walked away from Christianity but then realized that Christ is what matters and not prideful mongers who think they are the only ones who are right. People like this that call themselves "Christians" make we want to vomit.

[tektontv]

@dbferguson12 Very much in line with my own sentiments on many occasions. I can tell you that I have had contact with African Christians who would love our help just with the teaching of basic apologetics. They have asked to use my articles -- as though expecting to be turned down! I always give permission.

[tektontv]

@crosswayokc Sorry, I wouldn't call it horrible or wack even though I disagree with it. His analysis is highly professional and careful and deserves better than that.

[CBALLEN]

After Roman Geisler debates Mike,then maybe he can debate James White,lol.

[tektontv]

@chuckycheesemmm Yes -- per the vid and the note, Geisler refused to attend a conference with scholars on the subject.

[chuckycheesemmm]

@tektontv Him and Licona need to just get together and dual it out (intellectually). I'm assuming Geisler may be refusing this though?

[tektontv]

@chuckycheesemmm The implication is that he has, since he has released statements about it on his website.

[chuckycheesemmm]

I'm still wondering whether Geisler has watched this

[tektontv]

@LuvPeaceUnitySiberi4 Your accusation against Licona is disgusting and almost libelous. I know him very well -- he would never do any of this due to "pressure" -- he does it because he is an honest man trying his best to resolve what he thinks is a problem. He bases his conclusions on evidence, so your threat of a slippery slope is also insulting.

You should apologize for your slander.

[tektontv]

@sbrazzell I'm afraid that just shows how ignorant you are. Geisler isn't really short (though compared to Licona, a lot of people are!). He was made short in the cartoon to indicate how this controversy makes him out to be a "small" person.

Spare me the self-righteous sermon otherwise...Jesus called Peter "Satan"...I guess he wasn't his brother then....

[seandchoi]

LOL

[LuvPeaceUnitySiberi4]

@tektontv I for one agree that Geisler is going overboard with his accusations with respect to Licona. But I do think that Licona interprets a lot of Scripture as apocalyptic or symbolic due to anti-Christian pressure: i.e. many many scholars who will see Matt.27:52f. as fiction. I just think that Matthew's context in 27:52f. renders a non-historical interpretation implausible. An insertion is not impossible but I think it's unlikely. What's next? The virgin birth as metaphor?

[sbrazzell]

@tektontv Satire is a good method for communicating truth in situations where the audience seems deaf, or where it seems like the point isn't "hitting home." Be careful. Making fun of someone's height, for example, does not contribute to any truth communications. Also, there's no reason that you should be belittling the body of Christ. @Zangomatic is your brother; treat him that way.

[tektontv]

@LuvPeaceUnitySiberi4 It's panic button pushing because it is a manifest non sequitur.

Your comment re inserting apocalyptic parentheses is also a non sequitur. You're simply choosing the category of "apocalyptic" and insisting that it must be that one type of parenthesis found for there to be precedent. But such insertions were not governed by genre.

[LuvPeaceUnitySiberi4]

@tektontv I don't see how this is panic button pushing at all. There's a certain line between differing opinions and statements that downright disagree with Christian doctrine and tenets. As you yourself said, you disagree with Licona on Matt 27. The ancient didn't insert apocalyptic parentheses anywhere either

[Birdieupon]

@JonPirot

Dude, that's simplistic and lame. To make your argument you would have to ignore the very case Licona presented!

[tektontv]

@JonPirot I don't see a constructive purpose for your comment. Therefore I deleted it.

[tektontv]

@JonPirot Actually, yes, you can insert such parentheses. Ancient writers did it all the time, though not as frequently as some say. On that count Licona's argument was sound (thought not on others, which is why I disagree with him, ultimately, on Matt 27).

Saying this makes Jesus' dath and rez symbolic is merely desperate panic button pushing.

[JonPirot]

If you can't defend the Bible's inerrancy as whole, you can't defend any of it. Matthew 27 is not apocalyptic in nature, it's historical. You can't just insert an "apocalyptic" parenthesis into whatever you want, especially when everything else within context says otherwise. You can't compare Matthew 27 to Revelation, unless you want to go as far as saying Jesus' death and resurrection is legendary or symbolic, in which case you aren't really a Christian at all.

[Dante666]

@Zangomatic Is there any constructive purpose in your formulation of this particular question?

[tektontv]

@Zangomatic How about you get a clue? Maybe you can find one while Christmas shopping.

[tektontv]

@RPM11111 I consider them OK as starters for people in, say, junior high....but they won't do the job if you're facing down some of the modern atheists, or someone like Robert Price.

[RPM11111]

I like Norman Geisler's work. Never met him, but his books are good...