The fog of War - Lesson 5 HQ (日本語字幕)

Robert S. McNamara's 5th lesson in "The Fog of War"'s movie : "Proportionality should be a guideline in war".

McNamara served on WWII as a tactical analyst and was awarded with the Legion of Merit, became Ford Motor Co's CEO, then US Secretary of State duing Kenedy and Johnson (1961-1968), and President of the World Bank (1968-1981) later.

Category:

Education

Tags:

• War;
• Robert
• McNamara;
• Incendiary
• bombs;
• Curtis
• LeMay;
• War
• crimes;
• Japan;
• USA;
• World
• II;
• Crimes
• against
• humanity
• 焼夷弾
• 戦争
• 第二次世界大戦
• 戦争犯罪
• 人道に対する罪
• 日本
• アメリカ
• 米国

[technoguy07]

As an American taking a class about all the peoples of WW2 i begin to see war crimes and faults even in the allies. Dresden and Tokyo were definitely uncalled for extremes. But Japan's treatment of the peoples it conquered were appaling as were the peoples on the Eastern Front against the Nazis. It was a bad war and unfortunately a lot of civilians died, but you have have to wonder what the world would be like if the Axis won. After all Facism is still worse than capitalism correct?

[danielgrynines]

If you are American, and you already made room in your mind for your own attrocities, that's indeed very positive.

As for your question, WWII was not a war from capitalism against fascism. As a matter of fact, many of the societies that evolved on the "allied" camp after WWII were as totalitarian as fascists.

Besides, ask you the question : if the axys had won the war and shaped the world, what would you likely believe now as being "worse"?

WWII, like all wars, was about power, not ideas.

[smartprimate]

in my experience McNamara is right: all that matters is winning. My whole life I have seen the nasties, from school bullies to the cheating lying business people all get the prizes. It's what we are.

And the USA bad? Compared to what? The Japanese butchery in China and murder of POWs? The Nazi death camps? Stalin's liquidation of millions of political and ethnic foes. China's own ethnic cleansing? How about PolPot?

Humans always form large groups to destroy other large groups of their own kind.

[slowcreole]

@danielgrynines As someone who had an entire branch of my family exterminated in the holocaust, I can give you a few reasons as to how it would be worse...

[Heyokat]

They can define it as they like. I KNOW what they mean, and I'll use the definition I'm comfortable with. They've separated themselves from the rest of us with all of this needless cruelty in the name of money and and power. do and will oppose them any way I'm able for as long as I'm around. Sometimes just surviving is all I can manage, but it's a start.

[ppp9922]

@Heyokat

sadly fair is defined by the leaders and the powerful...

[Heyokat]

@ppp9922

I agree completely, but damned if I'll call it "fair." I WILL call it an excellent reason not to permit the 'elites' and our so-called "leaders" to create wars for the profits and power of the rich and powerful.

[ppp9922]

@Heyokat

there is no rules in war...

if there wasn't we wouldn't drop nukes on the Japanese.

the final solution in Europe wouldn't have been done.

chemicals wouldn't be used in war

civilians wouldn't be targeted

those who think there is need to learn that no one follows them when they are in war and after no one cares as long as they win.

its not an attitude towards war its face...tell me one time when people actually didn't do things that weren't "fair" to win a war.

[Heyokat]

@ppp9922 - And THAT is another filthy lie. All is NOT "fair"; that attitude is simply a justification for taking what you want.

[Heyokat]

@tubub - The PEOPLE of the West are not totalitarian. The nationless super-wealthy who have been running the West, however, ARE. And they use blackmail, assassination, bribery, lies, whatever it takes to achieve their goals. That is how they finally got the Fed into America - how they took control in the first place. Our leaders have been chosen for us for a long time now.

[BeethovenWannabe]

The Japanese were ready to surrender as early as May '45, just not unconditionally. Truman just wanted to show off his new toy to Stalin. Read "The Decision to Use the Atomic Bomb" by Gar Alperovitz.

[tubub]

@danielgrynines

But if the Allies and Axis had shared ideas, than there would've been little fault. But the difference in ideas is what leads to a power struggle, and yes, it becomes about power. Well, for one, there would be no Jews left in this world if the Axis had truly won the war, but more importantly the world would've been shaped in the image of a madman with a totalitarian vision for the world. The West is not totalitarian, that is nonsense.