PONTIAC - stock Pontiac Super Duty 421v8/405hp vs stock Chevy 409v8/409hp on DYNO

WATCH THE VID TO SEE HOW CLOSE THEY DYNO TO THEIR FACTORY 405hp/409hp ratings. Growing up.....Pontiac/Oldsmobile old timers/EXPERTS who taught me most of what I know, often told me Chevy rated their horsepower in a more optimistic way than say Oldsmobile or Pontiac. I've even heard Pontiac rated/tested their engines in a 100 degree room, compared to Chevy in a 60 degree room. These dyno results seem to reflect that some of what I heard was true. Both of these engines are great, but the results do seem to show that Pontiac was not rating their horsepower worrying if it would cause "songs to be written" about their engines .... like the great song "She's real fine my 409"--(Chevy).

Category:

Autos & Vehicles

Tags:

• Pontiac
• Chevy
• 421
• 409
• Super duty
• 1962
• 1963
• dual quad

[KoDBeast]

Looking at the 409, there is a spot around 5538 RPM that its producing 425.2 HP. it continues staying around that area before finally freezing at the 406 mark, making around 430 ft/lbs. The 421 has .25 more compression, a few more cubes, and much more horsepower (488) but 470 ft/lbs. Seeing how the 409 is a truck motor it seems to give out more torque per cubic inch, which kept it in the running. not a bad test though, its nice to see the 409 going head to head with a close rival.

[1967PmdGto]

@KoDBeast

Good points. Yeah I saw that 425 too, so I'm not totally sure how they arrive at the figures they got, maybe they discarded it because the dyno was not yet loading the engine at the proper rate at that time, or something. AND YEP THESE ARE BOTH GREAT MOTORS.

[citydriver]

406?? wayt i saw 425hp on the 409 dyno

[1967PmdGto]

@citydriver I saw the 425hp too. Not exactly sure how the dyno works but we know they're loading the engine (not free spinning in neutral) to simulate car weight. When I was in GM school they loaded my rebuilt transmissions on a similar device to see if it would hold together under a real car load. I don't know if the 425 was human error on these guys part, or maybe the engine was not in the right "load window" yet for the machine to consider it a true 425hp, who knows?

[biscaynenick]

421 Had a song in 1962 by the Super Stocks called "Wide-Track" ..."Red hot and cool w/a big chrome tach-got a 421 in front w/lotsa talking back. When it comes to the power shift I really got the nack and I never been beaten in my new wide-track......Big heavy clutch she's ready for some action and she'll never break loose w/the posi-tracion...Dual carbs are thirsten they need more gas theres nothin on the road that I can't pass"!!!!

[1967PmdGto]

@biscaynenick

Hey someone finally got that WIDE TRACK song up on ytube that you mentioned! I had told you a year ago it was no where to be found. Now I see 7 months ago, or 3 months after I checked, they got 2 versions of it up on ytube.

By THE COMPETITORS

watch?v=CoqhMLKG314

By THE SUPER STOCKS

watch?v=M7AJIuTn4PQ

[KoDBeast]

@JusticeYouWant2010 Thanks sir, i've been working out the little bugs here and there with good results. It's a bit wilder than a 340 hp build so it's around what a '62 380 hp would be. I've been considering the dual quad setup. But I've enjoyed talking about the chevy's and pontiacs, I myself never looked too far into the Pontiac lineup but I think I have some inspiration now. Thanks!

[JusticeYouWant2010]

@KoDBeast Nice Car you have, 1964 Chevy Impala 409 ( bored and stroked to 427 ), beautiful car !

[JusticeYouWant2010]

@KoDBeast Remember 1966, a factory Pontiac with 389, 1966 Pontiac GTO won 27 trophies in one year. The Tin Indian, the one that on the trunk read "You've Just Been Doctured" . 389 not a 421, just your average Pontiac 389 anybody could buy, where was this so called 427 W beast ?!?! You didn't need a 421 SD to beat a Chevy, a 389, 400, 421 ( not Super Duty ), 428 and 455 could also do the job, more so when the Chevy had its' most popular engine the 6 cylinder. Pontiac Simply Legendary !

[JusticeYouWant2010]

@KoDBeast Well if you look at 1960 the only competition Pontiac had were other Pontiacs with 389s. Every one knows that 389s were plentiful and you say 409s were, well a 389 was quicker not by much but it was. There is a song about a 409, something about it is so fine, they didn't say great ! Most of the Chevy muscle cars had some nice engines 396,427 etc. but most had 6 cylinder ( what the ... or the whimpy 350 ), take a Pontiac GTO from 1965 to 1970, the smallest engine was a 389, 400 !

[KoDBeast]

@JusticeYouWant2010 But thats exactly my point, one of twelve made. No ordinary person could get ahold of that. and the 427 corvettes had the "mystery motor" which was outlawed. In circle track the 421 may have had it going on, but in drag racing Chevy was all across the board year after year with the W motors. Heck if the Mark I wasn't developed the 396, 427, or 454 (Mark IV motors) may not have existed.

[JusticeYouWant2010]

@KoDBeast I remember when a ( one of 12 factory 421 Tempests made ) 1963 Pontiac Tempest Lemans, car # 50, Ray Nichels/ Paul Goldsmith with 421 Super Duty at Daytona speed weeks, Challenge Cup 250 blew away every one by OVER FIVE MILES including new 427 W Corvettes and defending Champ the Ferrari GTO ! Even Chevys' 409 had to be bored over 60 to 421 cid and used 14:1 compression ratio and 4;56 gears to even come close to a 421 SD. Chevy never had an engine till the RAT 427 and 454 came out!

[KoDBeast]

@JusticeYouWant2010 Theres only one problem. How many people, outside of the strip could own a Super Duty? Not very many from my understanding. 1961 didn't see high production for the 409 or 421SD. in 1962 however people on the street could easily find their way into a 409/409 chevy. A 421SD, not so much as only a limited number were made. 1963? The public could get their hands on a 421SD, but by this time Chevy had a ringer of its own, the 427/430 W motor. Not exactly so one sided is it?

[JusticeYouWant2010]

@JusticeYouWant2010 1963 421s 11 second 1/4 mile times, 1961, 1962 = 12 second 1/4 mile times. 1963 11 second 1/4 mile times. 421 SD, Legendary.

[JusticeYouWant2010]

Best of All, Arnie Beswick ( BeQuick ), beat all the new 1964 Hemis and Ford 427 ThunderBolts with 1963 Pontiac Tempest Lemans, Swiss Cheese Catalina, station wagon, all 421 SD cars Factory, in drag racing. Pontiac simply Legendary. In 1961 in the World, nothing could touch a 421 Super Duty !

[JusticeYouWant2010]

1963 Pontiac Tempest Lemans 421 Super Duty, # 50, February 16, 1963, at Daytone Speed Weeks, Challenge Cup 250, Paul Goldsmith/ Ray Nichols win by over 5 miles, vs 427 Corvettes, Cobras, defending champs Ferrari GTO, and what ever else showed up, biggest upset ever. No wonder Pontiac named it's new Muscle Car the Pontiac GTO.