Egg, Embryo, or Fetus: When Does Human Life Begin? (Part 1 of 5)

Stephanie Gray, executive director of the Canadian Centre for Bio-Ethical Reform, gave this presentation at Trinity Western University on March 10, 2010.

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[BigMikeMcBastard]

The interesting thing, and what makes this all a terrible irony, is that the pro-life movement is a thinly veiled attempt at controlling women, punishing their sexuality, and constraining sex within very literally man-made paradigms. The people selling you this idea do not care about the fetus. They care about women being able to have sex without consequence. That's what they're fighting against. "Moral decay", they may call it. You're buying what they're selling you, and you don't even know it.

[CanadianCBR]

@BigMikeMcBastard

The full presentation is now online - there are 5 parts.

-the CCBR staff

[BigMikeMcBastard]

When human life begins is a red herring. Follow the pro-life stance on that to its logical conclusion. Do we investigate all spontaneous abortions (which ends most pregnancies) as full-fledged murder cases? Do we charge the young woman who suffers rape with first degree murder when they decide they do not want to carry their attackers child to term? How many years should the unlucky teenager serve in prison for her indiscretion, and her decision not to have that ruin her life?

[CanadianCBR]

@BigMikeMcBastard

Judge for yourself, Mike: is there not a difference between a natural death and murder for born human beings? For example, would we treat a parent whose child died from a brain aneurysm exactly the same as a parent who paid someone to stab their child to death? Of course not, because we recognize that intent and motive are part of what is meant by "murder." If we make those distinctions for born human beings, so too must we make the same distinctions in the case of the unborn

[CanadianCBR]

@BigMikeMcBastard

Why is rape wrong? Because it violates and harms an innocent human being: the woman. Why is abortion wrong? Because it kills an innocent human being: the unborn child. The person who needs to face justice is the rapist; the unborn child, like the woman, is an innocent party. Furthermore, the trauma and memory of the rape will not be erased by an abortion. Instead, it adds insult to injury; neither the mother nor child are helped by perpetuating violence.

[BigMikeMcBastard]

@bluemu Sex should not have undesirable consequences, and as a society we should do our best to ensure that that remains so through good sex education, easy access to STD screening and contraceptives, and free access to abortions.

Having an unwanted child is far more detrimental to couples than having an abortion is.

I help women in this respect through openly advocating in favour of the continued protection of their right to have an abortion, and through who I vote for.

[bluemu]

@BigMikeMcBastard You don't want women to be "controlled" or "punished"? Has it not crossed your mind yet that sex obviously does have consequences? What part of abortion doesn't seem like a consequence to you? Abortion is a profit driven business. Pro-life organizations provide enormous support to women in crisis situations. Abortions are very harmful to mothers and the fathers of the baby. Since you care so much more, why don't you do something to help them?

[BigMikeMcBastard]

@ihateneveen You don't think women not being able to get their abortions from legal medical practices has anything to do with the higher incidence of iatrogenic or otherwise complications during the procedure?

The fact that some women are willing to go to such extreme lengths should illustrate how serious this issue is to some of them. You should consider yourself fortunate you've never been in a position where you're willing to risk unsafe medical care to have a necessary procedure done to you.

[ihateneveen]

@BigMikeMcBastard Correlation does not imply causation. And I am sorry, but I am not going to condone something that is wrong just because people who are spiteful are going to go to extreme lengths to do it anyway. There are people who are going to kill, torture and steal ANYWAY, that doesn't mean we should just accept it.

[BigMikeMcBastard]

@ihateneveen The number isn't important. The ratio of deaths to abortions was much greater pre-Roe v. Wade. Women were dying for a service which, in a hospital or clinic, is very safe and routine. Any extra deaths caused by forcing women to engage these services illegally is too many.

[ihateneveen]

@BigMikeMcBastard Like I said- BULLSHIT. The number of coathanger abortions was FALSE. Bernard Nathanson- LOOK him up. :)

[BigMikeMcBastard]

@ihateneveen Look at you, getting all hot and bothered. Do you really speak to people that way, or is it just something you do on the Internet?

[ihateneveen]

@BigMikeMcBastard That's my point dumbass. The response is providing real choice for women, instead of using poverty as an excuse to get rid of innocent babies. You obviously never heard of Pregnancy Crisis Centers, or groups like Feminists for Life. Do your research before running your mouth dipshit.

[BigMikeMcBastard]

@ihateneveen It's not a "false" choice, whatever that is even supposed to mean. It's an unfortunate situation for any woman to be in, and in fact it illustrates just how misguided the anti-choice movement really is. The only effective way to mitigate abortion numbers is through the relief of poverty, through the education of women, and through providing easy access to birth control especially in impoverished areas.

If the anti-choice movement gave a shit about fetuses, that would be their focus.