Is John Piper a Perfectionist?

John Piper - from "Desiring God" - says,

"Most of you ... when you read the Psalms you see yourselves so often. The experience of the psalmist is your experience. And that is no accident. God put the Psalms in the Bible not only to call us to great heights of praise and worship, but also to comfort us in very dark seasons of discouragement and doubt." (Sermon, "I Will Meditate on All Your Work and Muse on Your Deeds")

Piper must have a congregation of people as perfect as Christ!

How else could they "see themselves" in the Psalms? Are the following Psalms part of "their experiences"?

"O Jehovah, judge me according to my righteousness, and according to my integrity on me." Psa 7:8. Or are they the words of Christ? Psalm 7 contains the same words as Psalm 35, which is applied in John 15:25 to Christ.

"I will behave myself in a perfect way ... I will not know evil" Psa 101:4

"Jehovah rewarded me according to my righteousness; according to the cleanness of my hands He has repaid me." Psa 18:20. Or isn't Christ the only one with "clean hands? Psalm 18 contains the same words as Psalm 2 which is applied to Christ in Acts 4:25 and Hebrews 1:5.

There are so many problems with saying the Psalms describe David's experiences. Not only would you have to say David was perfect -- "I will behave myself in a perfect way ... I will not know evil." Psa 101 -- you must also say that David came under the wrath of God.

Moreover, if you follow Piper's teaching, you will have to say that believers spend "time in the pit of destruction". He writes,

"We must learn to wait for the Lord. King David gave us an example of this in Psalm 40: "... He drew me up from the pit of destruction, out of the miry bog." Here is a man after God's own heart (1 Sam. 13:14), WHO SPENT TIME IN "the PIT OF DESTRUCTION" and in "the miry bog" -- where there was no song in his mouth. How long was he there? We are not told." (When I Don't Desire God, p42).

Isn't Piper saying that there IS condemnation for those in Christ Jesus? To say that a believer spends time in the "pit of destruction" is equivalent to saying that believers come under the wrath of God.

On the other hand, it would be consistent to say that Christ went into a "pit of destruction" on the cross, wouldn't it? And doesn't Hebrews 10:6 say this Psalm is about Christ?

But Piper chooses not to follow the Apostles (who only applied the Psalms to Christ and not to David).

Piper says that God hides his face from believers, when in reality, the Psalms he quotes are describing Christ under the wrath of God ! Piper is trying to put believers under the wrath that Christ experienced on the cross!

He writes,

"Again and again the psalmists cry out to God that he not hide his face from them. For example in Psalm 27 (verses 7-9) David says, Hear, O Lord, when I cry aloud, be gracious to me and answer me! ...Hide not thy face from me." Hide not thy face from me," is the same as saying, "Be gracious to me!" ... If he TURNS HIS FACE AWAY, WE ARE DISMAYED." (Sermon, "Blessed are the Pure in Heart")

But isn't Psalm 27 applied to Christ in Matthew 26:60?

Psalm 27:12
"Do not give me into the soul of my foes; for FALSE WITNESSES have risen up against me, and the ones breathing out violence."

Matthew 27:60
"... there were many FALSE WITNESSES coming forward, they did not find any. But at last, coming up two false witnesses..."

Does Piper care what the New Testament says?

http://psalms.pbwiki.com

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• macarthur
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[MBI3030]

What a waste of time...........

[ATLpirate]

Andrew, is there a prominent man of God, either dead or alive, whom you DON'T have a problem with? "John Piper is a perfectionist!, Paul Washer is a legalist!, J.I. Packer is a pagan!"

The better question would be: Is Andrew C Bain a prideful, arrogant pharisee who is intentionally trying to confuse true believers? Someone should make a YouTube video about that.

Joel.

[TomassoDi]

another accusation because quoting people out of context.

[JohnnieNaked]

It's pretty funny to me how this video shows the almost complete rift between Judaism and Christianity. You can totally see how it evolved from one into the next. Pretty cool that it took 1500 years to go from god's commands to realizing it was impossible to obey god's commands. Rather than ditch the religion, it just evolved into something totally different.

[Heismightytosaveyou]

psalm 38:18 For I confess my iniquity; I am full of anxiety because of my sin.

psalm 51:3 I know about my sins,

and I cannot forget

my terrible guilt. 4 You are really the one

I have sinned against;

I have disobeyed you

and have done wrong.

So it is right and fair for you

to correct and punish me.

David was familiar with sin.. he was not perfect. If you listen to Piper's messages you will find he believes the same thing. Please repent Andrew, and stop leading people astray

[Heismightytosaveyou]

psalm 32:5 Finally, I confessed all my sins to you and stopped trying to hide my guilt. I said to myself, "I will confess my rebellion to the LORD." And you forgave me! All my guilt is gone.

[Balin93]

So, Andrew, how do you know that YOU are saved?

Because the Gospel never fails to assure believers? The fact that you BELIEVE is evidence of that assurance that you are among the Elect.

But to BELIEVE is an act... which means that your assurance of salvation is achieved by works, not the Gospel.

[ab0ad]

Joel most that can or could make a video would not waste thier time on Andrew as Jesus would not waste His time on the "religous leaders" of HIS time they were snakes to Him Andrew is just one that is hidding behinde his momies apron and using utube to do it I doubt he has ever talked to one of thies people about the problme he has with them

[FishStudios]

I've talked with Jehovah's Witnesses, and they sound just like Andrew McBain. They take Scripture to support their ideas and twist the words of Christians to turn them against them. I think Andrew is just like a Jehovah's Wittness. No constructive criticism, just senseless, loveless, nonsense attacks. I expect Andrew's next video to be called "Why John Piper believes in three Gods - he believes in the trinity"

[renenyffenegger]

Is John Piper a perfectionist?

Or is his concregation full of perfectionists?

Or is, heaven forbid, Andrew C. Bain a perfectionist?

Sorry, but I couldn't resist my comment.

[bloodreigning]

obviously below me are a bunch of piper followers,who seem to surely be judging you...gee i wonder where they learned the from??hahaha,God bless you all with his wisdom,now go ahead,point your finger...judge me.