Our Lady of Guadalupe part 3/3

The image of the Virgin Mary miraculously appeared on a cactus fiber 'tilma' or cloak of Juan Diego in 1531 near what is modern day Mexico City. Is it a true miracle of the God of the Bible? You decide, better yet, read up on all the apparitions of the Virgin Mary that are approved as worthy of belief by the Catholic Church. Most remarkable is the Polaroid-like quality of the color and lack of brush strokes on the original image.

Category:

Education

Tags:

• Guadalupe
• Our
• Lady
• Marian
• Apparition
• miracle
• Creation
• Ex
• Nihilo
• Mary
• Part
• 2/3
• 1/3

[Tizmaole]

I'm neither Catholic nor christian. But there ARE miracles: any damn fool who knows the story behind the Sistine Chapel knows that! And in that belief that inspired art IS a miracle, I propose that "Juan Diego" was not some illiterate, Indian peasant, but a gifted artist who was INSPIRED to create this miraculous image. (Divinely inspired, if you like.) But the Church changed the story out of racism, unwilling to credit Indians with such gifts, and the story snowballed into a fairy tale.

[dingorex]

@Tizmaole

What source(s) would make one come to such a conclusion? Do you have an axe to grind with Christianity?

Are you a bitter tergiversater? Just curious.

[Tizmaole]

@dingorex There's a long history of A) the Church and the Spanish disdaining Indians in the New World (attitudes which persist, to this day, among the mestizos), B) fairy tales explaining mundane things with magic, especially where social prejudice is aroused, and C) heroes being made out to be humbler than they really are, to preach faith in miracles. Read up on "Rhodopis," the first version of Cinderella from Ancient Egypt, for an example of the latter two phenomena in action.

[dingorex]

@Tizmaole

Specifics to this artifact. All I need are your facts--historical, scientific, that this is just an inspired painting. What is the exact documentation for the tilma of Our Lady Of Guadalupe being a purely human painting (native Mexican-Indian, at that)?

By the by, I'm no longer a Catholic, so it want offend me where you got your information. I just would like the source-data attribution.

[alderete74]

fairy tale

[dingorex]

@alderete74 But amazingly a proof for the supernatural. Now materialism, that's a fairy tale!

[ccfreak11]

I just did a research project on the Virgin in my grad work and it is interesting. Whether or not, the apparitions really occurred is unimportant. The impact the Virgin has had on the Mexican people can not be denied. She has influenced Mexico for hundreds of years now, even though the apparition tradition is still being debated. Importantly, I think we should all be respectful of each other's beliefs. And not regard those who trust in the Virgin, as "stupid mexicans." Be respectful.

[antoniov64]

Great miracle!

Some are claiming satanic deception. Why? Look at the fruit, the Aztecs became believers in Christ.

[Tizmaole]

@lucky806 With all due respect, I'm not going to open up this argument again. I spent DAYS trying to fend off the last guy who quarreled with me, to the point where I killfiled him and left the thread. That was MONTHS ago.

Please don't ask me to start arguing again..... because I won't.

[lucky806]

@Tizmaole even if the painting was done by diego himself that doesn't explain how the image has survived for so long with no signs of decay or aging.

[venian646]

@dingorex apparently everyone hates christianity even though christianity hates no one, it has been said even by Jesus himself that all who believe in him will be persecuted and that is exactly what continues to occur today. When i make the sign of the cross when passing by a church people laugh at me, when i make the sign of the cross before eating or for any other reason, people look at me strangely, when i start talking about god and religion, people become uncomfortable and lash out.

[205whiteboy]

It just amazes me how almost all videos like this one, or anything religious for that matter, end up in an argument. Can't we respect each other's beliefs even if we don't agree with them? I mean really....no amount of name calling and insults is going to convince the other side that you are right and they are wrong. Just saying....

[Karito2139]

Mary of virgin behind Satan...because everyone blind to Satan make you honor on Satan

[BarrioAztrologist89]

fuck this video btw im mexican, Aztec/Mayan/Science ALL DAY EVERYDAY!

[SuperJbm1]

Woooooooooow. Wouldn't it be considered idolatry? I'm confused "/

[COice]

Okay Tizamole, I'll let you go. May your days be well, and may you walk in virtue.

[Tizmaole]

@COice Where have you harassed me? How about badgering me with posts after I've specifically told you we're not talking anymore? What part of "Discussion closed" do you not understand?

You are now bordering on behavior for which you can be reported; you are not merely wrong, you are an obvious psychopath. I am blocking you, and ANY further contact will be reported to the YouTube authorities.

[COice]

@Tizmaole What questions do you have, and where have I lied or harassed you. I asked you simple questions for clarification. And despite your assertions that other things have lasted a long time, it is unheard of that paintings would last as long as this one have without deteriorating. I'm sure that those cave paintings and texts that you have referred to are heavily worn out (as Lascaux is), yet the painting of Our Lady of Guadalupe is still vivid, with the face and hands without a blemish.