Anthropomorphism in Pinker
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Yes I see that. Let me digest. I agree, certainly, that shaming is just one particular way of controlling.
naphra2 4 years ago
Hi naphra2, because we can only shame something that knows that it can be wrong. the computer can say to itself "gee, I really shouldn't let that program crash, that's against the rules"....... there are many ways we can control somebody--pay them money, beat them, shame them. These are distinct ways of control; we must draw the distinction in precise speech.
randyhelzerman 4 years ago
(wrt complexity) Yes, I can agree also with you Randy, there's probably a qualitative difference involved as well, not any measure of complexity will do here.
naphra2 4 years ago
But still, we CAN control and manipulate computers. What I'm asking is that why is it inappropriate to call that shaming? Yes, we're not used to _thinking_ that as shaming, but what exactly _makes_ it not shaming? To me, it isn't obvious at all that a computer can't feel ashamed, or at least, again, the reason to assert that they can't feel ashamed can't be that we can't shame them, for reasons of begging the question.
naphra2 4 years ago
(cont, to bitbutter and naphra2) I don't think we can attribute norms to the computer because doing so doesn't help us predict and controll it. You control somebody using a norm by _shaming_ them when they violate it. You can't do this to a computer. Until you can, it does you no good to attribute normative behavior to them.
randyhelzerman 4 years ago
Hi bitbutter and naphra, I think that we could agument a personal computer to the point where we could say it was making choices, but I don't think its merely the _degree_ of complexity. I'm trying to describe the _kind_ of complexity it would have to exhibit (cont)
randyhelzerman 4 years ago
Hi bitbutter, w.r.t. somebody standing at a crossroads... I haven't made the vid on this yet, but there's nothing to say that the reason which causes the choice ("you've got to go some direction!") is _deterministically_ related to the action. e.g. we still say smoking causes cancer even though not everybody who smokes gets cancer.
randyhelzerman 4 years ago
Hi Fab; looks like nobody can make any sense of what I'm saying; so you're in good company ! :-)
randyhelzerman 4 years ago
Excellent vid! Great points!
MikeSarno 4 years ago
Yes, I'm inclined to agree.
naphra2 4 years ago