178 Seconds To Live

Civil Aviation Saftey Authority seminar video on what happens when VFR pilots fly into IMC.

Category:

Autos & Vehicles

Tags:

• 178
• seconds
• casa
• crash
• vfr
• imc
• aircraft

[BigDTexas]

It's not by accident that they don't show the instrument panel at all, but rather switch to that goofy light-organ stuff. If the idiot at the controls - who is supposedly watching his altimeter unwind - would just look at the instruments next to it (the AI and the TC), he wouldn't be in a graveyard spiral. What is it that prevents people from looking at those 2 instruments? Was this 178 seconds-to-death figure accumulated before the invention of the gyroscope?

[sawbe]

Actually 178 seconds was the average time a VFR pilot remained alive after entering IMC. This was a result from a study done in the USA where pilots were placed in a simulator and flown into IMC. Yes this video is a dramatization, but it accurately depicts what its like without proper instrument training.

[BigDTexas]

It is a complete LIE that the average VFR pilot will auger in after 178 seconds in IMC. Get a load of this:

The 20 subjects for this 1954 experiment had ZERO instrument time. A Bonanza was chosen specifically because it would be difficult to fly. None of the subjects had soloed a Bonanza. Most subjects had only about 20 hours dual time. 7 of them had less than 40 hours total. The AI, DG and rate of climb indicators were covered for the entire experiment!!! Yet another hoax on general aviation.

[sawbe]

Theres conflicting views about where 178 seconds came from. At the time when we got the video at the CASA seminar, it was said that it was a simulator study where pilots lasted a minimum of 20 s and a maximum of 420 s. It should also be pointed out that the topic of the seminar was spatial disorientation and this video was used to put us in the head of a pilot suffering it after making a decision not to turn back. Idiot pilot or not, it happens and is a major cause of IMC related fatalities.

[Swallabat]

WTF didn't the victim in this film as soon as he lost outside reference transfer his attention to the AI?, whilst keeping a watch on his airspeed and rpm guage?

And whilst we were at it, why was he flying so low in the first place?

And who the hell would continue into that cloud, especially if they were unsure of their position, anyway?

That's not a film about flying, it's a film about natural selection IMHO.

[sawbe]

It's hard to understand what it feels like as a VFR pilot without the IFR training unless you actually are one. To ignore what your brain is telling you and trust your instruments is not something you can just do. Even the best of pilots make bad judgment errors like this.

[BMWMarv]

There are a few of you here that I would like to take up and dump into the middle of a nice, thick cumulus for a few minutes and see just how far your basic VFR instrument training gets you. Half of you are arguing about 178 seconds - the time doesn't matter, only the story, and apparently a lot of you aren't getting it. "Why doesn't he do this?" "I would do that" - you all need a real, unplanned flight into IMC with a good CFII to understand what this video is trying so desperately to tell you.

[mjok2004]

I feel any pilot trained to fly should be aware of what the instruments do during VMC. So if you get lost in cloud use your instruments no reason to dis-trust them as they are accurate. I can't see why someone cant fly an aircraft in IMC. At least straight and level anyway. I might be prooved wrong when I start my NVFR But as long as you don't start inputting commands you dont usually require and trust the instruments I dont see 178secs a reality. TRUST THE INSTRUMENTS!

[blampa]

@Jackle61 Exactly.

Can't believe all the dumb comments from pilots here about "what I would do".

I had an older friend at the flying school I attended 20 years ago, and he was an unrestricted PPL pilot with his own Piper Dakota, 6000 hours and an NVFR. He flew over the ranges one day to take some of his mates to the Bathurst 1000 and around Warragamba entered IMC. Within 3 minutes everyone including him were dead. He'd done sufficient IFR for his NVFR, but he was still caught out.

[SebastienDS]

video scares me. always think it's better to be on the ground , wanting to be up there , than to be up in the soup there , wanting to be on the ground

[SebastienDS]

@mjok2004

it's still scary

[mancuj1]

@Jackle61, it's exactly what happend to him - VMC into IMC without the proper training.

[mancuj1]

It's really scary to see so many people posting here who completely miss the point. Who cares how many seconds "you" can actually survive - the point is to make sure you stay out of IMC conditions if you are not properly trained. I hear a lot of people saying what they would do differently; it's very easy to be a Monday morning quarterback, especially sitting in your armchair w/o being bounced around in turbulence. The point is to get the proper training or stay OUT of the clouds!

[Swallabat]

@BMWMarv I have actually done that done that very thing: (On my PPL test as it happened when the weather turned poor). Admittedly after asking if I wanted to continue my examiner did the radio calls for me, and did his best to keep a look out whilst I flew the heading and maintained my height and attitude. I lasted as long as I needed to until the IMC cleared. I just don't see the problem... Admittedly there wasn't much turbulence, so it wasn't very challenging.

[Jackle61]

Isn't this what happened to JFK jr. ?

[bruno84]

You can say the video is old, outdated, stupid, doesn´t make any sense... truth is this situation is a killer. Sure, you can talk about AI, TC, DI, damn, why not talking about EFIS and AHRS!?!? There´s lots of equipment to prevent this from happening BUT unlike your computers where you just have to look at the gauges on the screen and move a joystick, in a real plane your body will control your mind unless you are one of the few who are sensible enough to get proper trainning. 

[bruno84]

@BigDTexas Ever heard of partial panel?

[tubeyou443]

You say this wont happen to you, until you have 178 seconds to live.