Celibidache Bruckner 9 (part two)

Rehearsal and performance.

Category:

Music

Tags:

• Celibidache
• Bruckner
• rehearsal
• concert

[unnameableuser]

@MrMuzikmann And in Celibidache & MPO's rendition, the opening of the third gate is like being traversed by thunders. There is a similar moment, but not as powerful as here, in Bruckner's third symphony, in the same rendition, of course :)

[unnameableuser]

@MrMuzikmann the only shade of anguish i can find in this third movement is in the beginning (which you may find again in the finale of Mahler's 9th and there the initial angst remains up to the end....)

But the three climaxes are the power and the glory of the soul's ascension, each one marking, as Gunter Wand has put it, "the opening of a gate", of a heavenly gate.

[MrMuzikmann]

@Strefanasha

Bruckner suffused his work,as great composers do,with intense personal feeling & let's not forget despite his great religious fervour that he was a rather tortured soul.

To me this climax is like no other he wrote.Not the exalted & magnificent slow movement climaxes of his other later symphonies but a huge outburst from full orchestra that finishes on a crashing dissonance & is then eventually foillowed by a serene & beautiful close.That climax is full of anguish to my ears.

[Strefanasha]

@eek4rus

I see where you are coming from. I would say that Mahler is more congenial to the modern mindset than Brucker. But I find his agony such that I really cannot listen to him any longer now that I havelargely outgrown my youthful angst. I would say Mahler is psychological and Bruckner spiritual, even though he did compose by the numbers (as Bach)

But Bruckner has been my adored favourite for more than 25 years, creating the best worship music in praise of YHWH, God Almighty, there is

[Strefanasha]

@MrMuzikmann

Not to dispute your hearing of this passage, but I for one cannot hear darkness, torture, nor abyss here. I hear majesty, holiness, and the glory of God Almighty the Holy and Terrible which I firmly believe was what BRuckner was about protraying in every note he wrote. . . . . . but then, though no catholic i am a christian, view myself as a mystic, and live in awe of my Dread Lord, The Holy One, the Most High . . . .

[MrMuzikmann]

That final climax in the last movement (5'40") is utterly chilling.The build-up starts so beautifully with those high string figures,and then gets more & more tortured as it approaches the great outburst,continues to grow darker & darker throughout the climax! Powerful stuff,like staring straight into the Abyss.Celi doesn't overcharge it,he just lets Bruckner do the talking here.What more can you ask of any great conductor?

[djohnnyf]

@michaels7

Agree. Who was it who said that said that a Mahler adagio never finds god but a Bruckner one does? I found Bruckner leaden until I found Celibidache. His recording of the 8th with the MPO is as 'spiritual' as it gets for this atheist!

[FilmRomMusDrawingWar]

Mahler.

[darkprose]

@eek4rus I think this does an injustice to both Mahler and Bruckner: Mahler's music is profoundly "musical," surely "technical," and deeply inspired by the great German composers before him; Bruckner's music is profoundly psychological and intuitive. But these are all metaphors for the music, which is always more than organization and psychology, anyway. I still think your profile of both is deeply wanting.