America: Christian Nation? Or Not?

Examining America the "Christian" Nation.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=tVbLbweVWN8

Category:

News & Politics

Tags:

• American
• US
• United
• States
• of
• America
• Christian
• Nation

[burkewhb]

Yes, it is a Christian nation. Do atheists celebrate Christmas? I don't see why they bother if they don't believe in God. I think they should have to work on Dec. 25th, too, and not want to have the whole day off, like Bob Cratchet, who picks a man's pocket every 25th of December, as it were, sir.

[fede2]

@Mr88playmaker fine, only it's completely irrellevant because it doesn't refute my argument.

you can appeal to tradition all youi want, it doesn't make your acusation of secular governments as necesarilly tyranical a non-sequitur. or the necesity for god in freedom the same thing.

you are yet to refute what i've said on the matter.

[Mr88playmaker]

@fede2

The specific, official. legal definition of "The Laws of Nature and of Nature's God" is clearly given us by the founders, and by Blackstone, and by Locke etc.

The "WE" in this "equation" is the same "WE" known as The United States of America. Our nation's statement of faith says that "WE" (America) hold these truths to be self-evident.

"WE" is you and I and every American. It's why EVERY Theist & Atheist officially & legally recognizes GOD in Gov, including all 50 state constitutions.

[fede2]

@Mr88playmaker "Secular models of Government are those we called 'rule of man' systems (i.e. the Under-Man model as opposed to Under-God)."

whose "we" in this equation? because i didn't agree to that definition. as far as i know, a secular government is one that is of no specific religious denomination. to imply that this necesarily means brute dicatorship is an abominable non-secuitur.

i've already explained how it is possible to argue for freedom on rational grounds without envoking gods.

[Mr88playmaker]

@fede2 (QUOTE) "secular does not imply based on the whims of some guy or another. i've already adressed this point." (END QUOTE)

Secular models of Government are those we called "rule of man" systems (i.e. the Under-Man model as opposed to Under-God). In Secular governments, humans determine your "rights" and human rulers rule over you.

In our Judeo-Christian model, because of God, your rights and liberties are GUARANTEED; they are OFF LIMITS to human rulers, and  the Gov is your SERVANT.

[fede2]

@Mr88playmaker "The reason N. Korea & China etc. have NO human rights is because they have the SECULAR (Under-Man) system of government."

secular does not imply based on the whims of some guy or another. i've already adressed this point.

[Mr88playmaker]

@fede2

The reason N. Korea & China etc. have NO human rights is because they have the SECULAR (Under-Man) system of government. The American system is a whole other model.

Our founders were wise enough to prohibit human government (including the founders themselves) from being recognized as the granters / guarantors of our rights and liberties. They officially and legally placed our rights safely into the hand of God, & OFF LIMITS to human rulers. You don't have to be religious to dig that.

[fede2]

@Mr88playmaker this is very telling. you seem to be denying a-priori the posibility that freedom can be argued for on rational grounds (i.e. without invoking faith, scripture or whatever). since you're leaving this consideration out from the start nothing you say is too convincing.

rights are derived from individual freedom which in turn is derived from the notion that a man's existence is not inherently bad or unjustified. to suggest otherwise would involve some very precarious premeses.

[Mr88playmaker]

"Our liberty depends on our education, our laws, and habits . . . it is FOUNDED on morals and religion, whose authority reigns in the heart, and on the influence all these produce on public opinion before that opinion governs rulers."

--Fisher Ames

(Framer of the First Amendment)

[Mr88playmaker]

Everybody has a faith. Theists, atheists, everybody.

Our nation's statement of faith (see Declaration) says that we believe our rights come from GOD and that governments are instituted among men to secure those rights.

What we believe matters.