Free-Will Impossibilism

Why Free-Will is really Impossible

Category:

People & Blogs

Tags:

• free-will
• determinism
• indeterminism
• philosophy
• epistemology
• truth
• ignorance

[shlockofgod]

Who argued that people can choose independent of their nature?

[Rybot9000]

@dartplayer170 Intervening would imply an absurdity. A God who exists within another world. This cannot be so if by God we mean something greater like "being itself" (St. Thomas Aquinas). Being itself and Logic are so intertwined that they are the same thing manifest as two different aspects (three if we include wisdom: the manifestation of truth in a human being). You can replace these terms with Universe, Reason and Knowledge if you want. Does not matter to me at all, that's what I'm saying.

[Rybot9000]

@dartplayer170 God can be seen as "creative spirit" from which the "logos" (Logic/Creative Reason) came forth into the world. Moreover it is the world, is the basis of the world and defines the limitations of the world. This all makes more sense in context of an understanding of ego-based consciousness. Thus logic (logos, the word, the Christ, etc..) is God's will. Whatever happens is meant to happen (according to logic) and couldn't happen any other way. This is not divine "intervention".

[Rybot9000]

@dartplayer170 It's just an expression. As far as I have defined God yes, God exists. I define God as that which is invoked, all that is, the totality, the seen and the unseen, that than which nothing greater can be thought, the known and the unknown, the manifest and the unmanifest. I use the term to refer to that from which all obtain and unto which all attain. The beginning and the end, the alpha and omega. The Yin and the Yang. Sweet and Sour. The One, The All, Omnitudo Realitatis. etc..

[dartplayer170]

@Rybot9000 How can you prefer God's will over luck? First, does God even exist? If God does exist, then does He have a will? And is His will free or is He constrained to the same causality as the rest of the universe? Or did His will create causality, leaving Him outside of the causality chain? Really, you prefer this? There ins't an ounce of solid footing anywhere in sight. No evidence just pure speculation. I would assume luck is an above average achievement based on probability.

[dartplayer170]

@Rybot9000 Agreed. Stochastic models do not imply freedom but deterministic models imply the impossibility of freedom. Freedom will never be defined satisfactorilly in the same way randomness and infinity can never be defined satisfactorilly. They are abstract concepts which people seem to understand but they defy logical definitions. Still, the universe is the way it is regardless of whether we can define it logically. This is something that QM physicists have had to learn to deal with.

[Rybot9000]

@dartplayer170 Sure; if you define luck as the consequence of logic. I prefer expressions like Natural law or God's will over Luck, but as long as they all mean the same thing. They may taste only appear slightly different to the conscious mind. Functionally they may be identical in which case I accept your account. Yes, the intelligence which adheres in me is lucky. By the grace of God it's luck.

[Rybot9000]

@dartplayer170 The physics model of radiation is not really an explanation it is a model for prediction. Pre-diction implies some continuity from past to present to future. How do you know the physics models aren't just practical frameworks and not full-on explanations? Moreover how does probability equate with freedom? Is freedom the same thing as being stochastic? Freedom is still undefined by its proponents. It, however, implies a self-created (causa sui) nature. Which does not mean random.

[dartplayer170]

@Rybot9000 So, are you saying this out of the intellignece that you have or the luck that you have? Or perhaps are you unlucky? ( only with respect to the said argument of course ).

[dartplayer170]

@Rybot9000 Coaching? Who is going to do the coaching? The coach is also part of the deterministic world, no? So the coach will only exist if the initial conditions lead to the fatefull appearance of a coach. And the results of the coaching is still predetermined by the initial conditions. The coach is not changing fate. Whether the coach exists and whether the coach actually has a beneficial effect is luck.