John D Lee Question Resolved on First Day of Attack. Facts Pertaining to the Day

JD Lee states on the Morning of the First attack, he "took an Indian trail" and made their camp... "in 12 miles, the wagon rd being 50mi". It is impossible for JD Lee to make the Mountain Meadows in 12 miles. I think I resolve the issue. Also the facts of the day immediately prior to and on the day. Sorry for the dark Google earth, its also dark on my screen, I have no idea why they just darken up certain areas.

Category:

Education

Tags:

• Mountain
• Meadows
• Massacre
• john
• lee

[Jz81650]

Read Massacre at Mountain Meadows by Walker, Turley, Leonard. I feel it clears up all the so calls, misconceptions, and rumors. I enjoyed this debate and I will try to read some of your references.

[IExposeMormonism]

@Jz81650 I have WTL MMM and the diaries. I find all the MMM books useful. William Wise, Sally Denton, Bagely,, Brooks. But there are little errors. I of course made all things right. WTL has the location of the massacre right. Gibbs, Bagely, Brooks put it some 1/2 too close to camp. Recently the MMM was made a National Historic site. But they too aren't using Carleton's numbers correctly, they're too far south by 100yds or so.

[Jz81650]

I disagree with those statements. First Haslam went for counsel because no one knew how to the handle the situation. Proof to me that BY had never meant harm to wagon trains. Second as I said before that statement BY said is not CLEAR who he was talking about most believe it was the Us Army.

[IExposeMormonism]

@Jz81650 Laban Morrill dropped in and was ignorant of those rampaging Arkies. When he heard the plan to kill them it was he who was responsible for insisting on having a man go north to confirm the decision. It was a CYA for the perps. Haslam's ride and times are noted in Many Mormon diaries, as WTL note. They knew why he was riding N/S. Yet nothing in those diaries mentions the emigrants or MMM. So why keep record of the horse ride? B.Y. had riders carrying info NSEW plus the mail.

[Jz81650]

@IExposeMormonism so your point is that BY created the environment for MMM to happen? That point I can see but you can't blame BY or the LDS church for CHOICES others made. Which by the way they made without counseling BY. BY issued a letter that wasn't received until the 12th which made it clear to help.

[IExposeMormonism]

@Jz81650 D Hintington's diary quoting B.Y. "giving" the Indians the cattle belonging to other people. Non Mormon people. And James Gemmel witness to B.Y. statement "I would wipe them out". Plus the absurd CYA ride of fat boy Haslam shows Mormons felt they had to ask B.Y. permission NOT to kill the women and children. Plus no one waited for the return note. Are you aware that in Mormonism Religious Rank trumps military rank even in war? The plot get black fast.

[Jz81650]

As for PC we lost that and many more of rights with that so called " Patriot Act".

[IExposeMormonism]

@IExposeMormonism The lack of military force has been a source of controversy. It's the oddest "war" that never was. Further,complete immunity for treason and other crimes like the MMM was granted by Pres Buchanon. Further,when Judge Cradlebaugh tried to investigate the MMM he needed a military escort. This was Removed because of Posse Comitatus. You'll have to research PC. After 911-01 we lost Posse Comitatus and Habius Corpus under the Pariot Act and NDAA. Did you know that?

[IExposeMormonism]

@Jz81650 To see how Lot Smith, Pulsipher and others successfully attacked the military wagons and not the soldiers buy books on the Utah War. Not just Mormon books. "Camp Floyd", The Mormon Conflict, (Furness) The Utah Expedition by Jesse Gove 1928, Documentary Account of the Utah Expedition, Hafen, 1958. Those 4 will get you up to speed. Tribes include Cheyennes, Arapahoe, Utes, Pawnee Shoshone around Ft Bridger. I don't know why the All Out War didn't occur. Neither do the soldiers!

[IExposeMormonism]

@Jz81650 The Indians murdered emigrants for their cattle on the southern route. Only Mormons,attacked the military, not Indians. No Indians were with the USA Military. The only way Indians or Mormons dressed as Indians would get cattle is by stealing them. To steal them obviously implies they are property. Property of the people herding them. To steal them then implies attacking the owners to accomplish the goal of theft. B.Y. understood that. It's obvious.