Did Joseph Smith See God the Father?
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But when he heard Ambrose of Milan speak, claiming that all those passages in the Bible which suggested anthropomorphism were to be interpreted figuratively, Augustine was intrigued and was eventually converted.
But according to Edwin Hatch, the earliest Christians had no concept of "transcendence." Indeed, they thought of themselves very literally as the children of God. It can be seen that the God of the philosophers creates numerous problems for the interpretation of the Bible
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@bsp256 This was a 700 yr journey from Plato to Constantine & the councels of Niacea. If Christianity was to accept the God of the philosophers, it had to shed certain "primitive" beliefs that characterized the God of Israel. Chief among these beliefs was the idea that God is a material being whose physical form is that of a man. since as Grace Jantzen observes, "According to a Platonic system of thought, it would be utterly inconceivable that God should have a material body." see more on page
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@scottwins2 Do you really think the Jews got the idea for one God from Plato, and then changed their Scripture to match? That is a bold claim. What evidence do you have?
So you would dwindle in God's presence, but Joseph Smith didn't? Why?
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Then is appears that you disagree with the Reformers, like Martin Luther , John Wesley. tht they were waitng for apostles and revelation to come back to the earth.the overtones of Philosohy was huge during the New Testament era Greek philosophy was was as popular as Christianity. Plato designed God into The Devine, or The One, why have you not addressed that issue? Cause its a fact .
scottwins2 7 months ago
@scottwins2 With all due respect, it's become apparent you don't know what you're talking about. Wesley wasn't a reformer (born 200 years too late). Luther was a Catholic, and Catholicism has the magisterium, which is similar to an prophet. He left it for sola scriptura.
bsp256 7 months ago
@scottwins2 As far as Plato, I don't know what you're getting at. Are you saying he invented monotheism? The Jews were polytheists until Plato came along? How was he able to rewrite Jewish Scripture? Why would the first Christians who were Jews incorporate Greek paganism into their doctrine. They were trying to win Jews who hated paganism.
bsp256 7 months ago
The Bible was picked aprt by Philosohers for 700 yrs starting with Plato Greek Philosophy of "The One God" or The Devine came straight from Plato, hence NeoPlatoism The Holy Ghost comes upon a man or a prophet in this case and provides a montle as if t were. i guess its not plain enough for you that moses spoke to god face to face as a man speaketh unto his friend. As far a Timothy I have know problem with it all since i would dwindle for sure in gods presence.
I am glad Joseph ask God.
scottwins2 7 months ago
Ex 33:11 - And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaks to his friend.
Ex 33:20 - And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
Is there a contradiction in the course of 9 verses, or is speaking face to face a figure of speech? Don't you think it means that he had intimate communication? Especially when it's made so clear later IN THE SAME CHAPTER that Moses would die if He saw God's face.
John 1:18 - No man hath seen God at any time...
bsp256 7 months ago
@bsp256 Exodus 33: 23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen. You missed one. This is why we need prophets so we can know for sure. Because the scriptures are ambiguous at times. The they seem to disagree. But if you consider its what the Lord wants at the time. We believe thats why the Holy Ghost comes upon a man, to protect and to testify'. He could come and go before Christ gave it to everyone. Fairlds.org has more on the matter
scottwins2 7 months ago
@scottwins2 This is really not that difficult a topic, and the Bible is abundantly clear, and all of Exodus 33 and 34 fit perfectly with the rest of the Bible. No man can see the Father or has seen the Father.
We don't need prophets. Our foundation is Scripture. It judges the prophets. The Bereans were commended for testing Paul (Acts 17:11) with Scripture (they had the OT). They didn't scrutinize Scripture based on Paul. You have it backwards. Smith fails the biblical test miserably.
bsp256 7 months ago