carl sagan on education

i just wanted to point out to thunderf00t that putting faith in an education system that has severe flaws, and violently and dogmatically defending it, goes completely against the principles you're trying to uphold. here carl sagan makes much the same points as dan brown did. i can say that i've experienced what he experienced to a great degree, and it is because of the flaws he describes in high school that i may never enter university. as such, i can't say whether he's right when he says quality has dropped, and obviously not all cases will be the same, it depends on the university, the field of study, and the instructors. but is it really necessary to react to dan brown as if he was slandering the entire system, rather than simply pointing out his experiences and the flaws he's seen? your reaction was of a kind i can only call religious. especially when, in spite of his point being that the education system is more a detriment to learning than it is a benefit, and how much he stresses the importance of learning, you treat him like he is attacking learning itself, and even science itself, rather than simply what he perceives as an ineffective system. that is beyond unfair, it is dishonest, and you shoulfd be ashamed of yourself

yes, i know the guy looks/sounds/acts like glenn beck, but that shouldn't cancel out what he says that's right.


i think this is fair use, but i'll happily remove it once my point has been made



also:

"The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education."

"Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything he learned in school."

"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education."

-albert einstein


(i would rephrase the last one as 'It is a miracle WHEN curiosity survives formal education.', as it so rarely does)


my PM exchange with venomf00tx:

me: your recent videos struck me as not very thought through, particularly as your point seemed in opposition to sagan's views. i made a video from the audio version of "the demon-haunted world", i'd like to hear your response.

f00t: Sagan speaks glowingly of the university environment. He in no way likens it to, nor does it bear any resemblance to browns view of universities.

Sagan is however brutal about his highschooling, as gates is too, nor do I have any fondness of my highschool experience.

However brown was not talking about highschool, but university.

me: i specifically hilighted the part where sagan points out that those conditions that made his university experience so benificial had, at the time of writing, ceased to be the case.

i'd also appreciate it if you read the description on the video for my personal view.

f00t: [*crickets chirping*]



the crickets are for effect

Category:

Education

Tags:

• sagan
• education
• audio
• demon haunted world

[lonstar70]

This book changed my life when I read it around 1999 or so. For the better. I like the idea of reason and analytical thinking.

[empacae]

@neomp5 true.

[neomp5]

@empacae

i never treat nonsense as if it were meaningful.

[neomp5]

@empacae

i always say that the issue isn't what you think, just that you think.

[neomp5]

@empacae

so what you're saying is "i like nonsense"

[empacae]

So I don't know what to say neomp5. Though thunderfOOts new vid is one I can actually 100 % agree with... its just that the actual loonies are running the asylem forum now. I've met some real intellectual non-theists and had open and clever discussions, I just hate that his forums degrade into a rile and hatefest it seems. I mean who wants somebody to agree with you all the time?

[empacae]

And it would be so much easier if I were delusional. Then it could be dismissed as faulty wiring in the brain circuits or input peripherals (and I have asked this of myself seriously to where sought medical, phychological analysis), but they sign off on my as being in good health mental and physical. Though I still think it would've been fun to be a loony. Instead of dealing with harsh reality....lol

[empacae]

It's just that I think I could go on and on about this and that and in the end... It's not measurable, therefore not tangible too you, and you'd be probably not at all amused. And I would be exhausted trying to explain. I used the word succintly to express part of what I think makes up a human being. But its desription is ineffable to perception of the one experiencing it.

[empacae]

@neomp5 You might have me stumped here. As it delves into metaphysics, and not the stuff of hard sciences (which I subscribe to fully). But I also think the human experience is something more. So yes I am a theist. But I do like to keep an open mind, and the introduction of new ideas. Sow how to explain spiritual without blurring the lines into theology. I'd rather not right now. I don't think I'm equipped. It's not that I wouldn't give it a try....