Molinism and Free Will

Here is another example to demonstrate genuine free will being in tact even though God actualized a particular world in which you do the things you do. I use the dinner scene from the movie NEXT.

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• gentle135

[kkallebb]

There is a substantial criticism of Molinism in Paul Helm, _The Providence of God_, pp 55-61. The argument is that, if the will of the human subject is non-determined (as Molinism argues) there is logically no way for God to foreknow what choice the person will make. This seriously limits God's sovereignty. Since the objective of Molinism is to assert divine sovereignty equally with human freedom, this criticism, if valid, would seem devastating to Molinism.

[Gentle135]

@kkallebb Sorry it's taken me a while to respond. I haven't read that book, but it sounds like to me that the author either doesn't understand God's middle knowledge or rejects that God has middle knowledge. And Molinism shows that God's sovereignty and man's free will are compatible, not that they are equal. There is good biblical reason to think God has middle knowledge and using it God can know all choices any free will agent will make in any setting he places that agent in.

[kkallebb]

I'm not seeing a role for grace (i.e. God/Holy Spirit enlivening a heart "dead in sin" so that it turns to Christ in faith and repentance) in Molinism. What role does grace play in the molinist system?

[Gentle135]

Grace is pretty much the same as what the Calvinist says except they think it can't be rejected and the molinist says it can, calling it "Overcoming Grace".

So grace is monergistic but resistible. Think of this.. your driving and suddenly wake up in an ambulance being taken to the hospital. You've done nothing to warrant this medical salvation and didn't cause it to come upon you. If you do nothing, it continues. Or you can tell them to pull over and reject medical help and be unsaved.

[kkallebb]

@Gentle135 The Augustinian view (shared by Aquinas, Calvin and others), is that the human will is so damaged by the fall that it cannot of its own natural power turn to Christ in faith and repentance, but requires a "work of grace" in order to do so. Does Molinism agree with this?

[Gentle135]

@kkallebb Yes, human persons do not have freedom of integrity, only freedom of responsibility. Salvation is only a work of God. Man can do nothing to bring about salvation. However, man can resist it as seen in the Bible: Romans 2:5, 2 Thess 2:10-11, Parable of the Wedding feast Matt 22:3, Matt 23:37. Why persons reject God's grace is a mystery... evil is irrational. Israel itself is famous for resisting God.

[ryan84160]

@hpd707 Why would he predestine some people to hell ? That is ridiculously cruel.

[hpd707]

The major difference is that the God of Calvinism FORCES you to love Him, a blatant absurdity. The "wailing and gnashing of teeth" in Hell will come from people who foolishly rejected the gift of salvation. Jesus "draws all humanity to Himself," Calvinist scripture twisting not withstanding, so that no one has an excuse. God loves you and wants you to chose Him. He's already provided enough grace for us to do so. "...whosoever will, let him take of the water of life freely." (Rev. 22:17)

[TeaPartier22]

BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ctsfinestjon]

Yea..I don't think this movie explains the wonders and mysteries of our Lord God.

[ryan84160]

@Gentle135 If god creates a human being with 100% certainty that he/she will reject him under any circumstance, he has created him/her with 100% certainty that he/she will roast in hell. How is this different from being a member on the un-elect?

[hpd707]

@kkallebb So, you're saying there's no way for your God to know what I'll do unless he makes me do it. Wow, that makes a lot of sense. It sounds like you have a pretty wimpy God.

[hpd707]

@kkallebb

God knows that you will chose Y if X happens. He creates a world where X happens, so you choose Y. In a sense, God "determined" Y, but He did it though a free moral agent. God is sovereign and you have a degree of freedom. You didn't have to choose Y, but He knew you would. By the way, without freedom there is no love. We don't live in a sock-puppet world. If you really believe in determinism, buy a house near a crack dealer and leave your doors unlocked. See what happens.

[hpd707]

@kkallebb

Helm is actually claiming that in order for God to know anything, He must first limit everything to one possible world. Huh? How does that make sense? The Bible states that with God, all things are possible (Matt. 19:26). Therefore, God must have an infinite number of possible worlds at His disposal. In their quest to uphold determinism, Calvinists must logically limit the omnipotence of the Creator. I think God is bigger than than the God of Calvinism. Infinitely bigger.

[Purushadasa]

This is one of the best explanations I've ever seen on God's middle knowledge.

Well done, and thanks for uploading!

BTW, I love Nicolas Cage, and this movie just so happens to be #7 in my Netflix list right now. Mere coincidence? Perhaps not!

God bless you!