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[Thorbie]

@mathers3000 Mathers3000 is right. Everyone knows the Koch brothers used a time machine (that probably runs on oil) to pay off Thomas Jefferson and James Madison to write the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. When will the Koch brothers reveal this time machine (made with corporate money no doubt) and end their oppression on the working class throughout history??? Now to go spank one out to Keith Olbermann reruns on my tivo.

[pudgenet]

@PluripotentBrain Libertarians do not believe the state is not necessary; they recognize the purpose of the state is, as Thomas Jefferson wrote, to secure individual rights. Period. If you think a state is required for something other than that, then you think very poorly of your fellow man (and hopefully, of yourself, else you're also a terrible elitist).

[felpaluche]

I think I am. I cannot be swayed right away.

[Roxz80]

Meh, just looks like a wing of the republican party.

I'm perfectly fine with my "class warfare", thank you very much.

[AnarchisThinker]

@BearWindAppleyard Well, the ad itself is directed to the Independent Thinkers, as said in there, which means it is supposed to be just a commentary for libertarians (and perhaps anarchists). However, if you think a commentary magazine tells others how to think, then it is your mind, I can't change your mind.

[graffjon]

@h4tefury85

Yes

[BearWindAppleyard]

"sick of people telling you how to think? Then buy our product (...where we tell you how to think)"

[ConscientiousMind]

@pudgenet On the contrary, anarchy can exist because it has existed. Take medieval Iceland and some medieval towns in continental Europe. During the Spanish Civil War there were many voluntary socialist areas. None of them were perfect but they worked, and were more ethically sound than any coercive nation-state.

What's curious is that you charge anarchists with fantastic thinking, while hoping that the government will somehow stay within its boundaries. How well has that worked out so far?

[ConscientiousMind]

@pudgenet Btw, just so it's clear, I'm not thinking of a magic button scenario where the government suddenly disappears and we'll have anarchy (which is why Somalia is not the best example of anarchy). It has to be a long journey of convincing people that libertarian non-aggression is generally the best way to act and that the government is not the solution to social problems. In that sense the means are not disconnected from the ends - anarchy is not an end product, but a general praxis.

[pudgenet]

@ConscientiousMind "if you can't have liberty on a small scale(anarchy) then you'll never have it on a large scale(minarchy)"

I am saying you will have MUCH LESS liberty without govt. We have a govt that is sworn to be limited and to uphold individual liberty; that is a HUGE achievement. We will see the health care mandate fall in the Supreme Court. As tenuous as that is, it couldn't happen anywhere else. If we can make our govt abide by its own law, we'll have the best possible outcome.

[pudgenet]

@ConscientiousMind "I'm not advocating wishful thinking"

You are advocating a society which cannot exist except through fantasy.

I am all for education, and the more people who believe in freedom, the better. But there's no evidence of any sort that we could ever get to the point where enough people agree that we won't need government. It's not pessimism any more than a belief for the need of police -- private or public -- is pessimism: human nature has never changed.

[ConscientiousMind]

@pudgenet I'm not advocating wishful thinking, but active participation, non-violent action and education. Even if most people are authoritarian, at least you and I are not (I'd like to think so), so education can make a difference.

I think your view is very pessimistic, because if you can't have liberty on a small scale(anarchy) then you'll never have it on a large scale(minarchy). There's a reason why governments don't stay small for very long.