General Gavin's Ontos Saves inept marines, Part 2 dynmicpara

An U.S. Army vehicle concept from LTG James Gavin--the Ontos--was developed with Army R&D funds and then bought by the USMC using our tax dollars to offer slow, walking speed 6 x 106mm recoilless rifle fire support to draftees on foot in Iwo Jima-style clusterfucks that saved countless lives in Vietnam by taking out enemy VC/NVA Soldiers who skillfully used camouflage and entrenching to be difficult to root out.

http://www.combatreform.com/groundvehiclephotos.htm

However, the Ontos born of early 1950s technology was made of thin steel and powered by highly flammable gasoline. The M50 Ontos was only marginally better than the French FT-17 light infantry 6 mph speed tank of WW1 to show how far the USMC--which learned methodical battle and man-with-a-rifle arrogance from them--had not progressed. The Army opted instead for better protected M113 Gavins/M551 Sheridans made of thicker aluminum alloy armor that were light enough in weight to take applique' armors to stay ahead of threats as well as be faster and more mobile to include swimming across lakes/rivers--something you'd think marines should want to do.

However, ANYTHING that helps a marine on foot in a way that takes the glory from him is "heresy" and the Ontos was getting all the praise from the otherwise dismal USMC Vietnam experience of constantly being ambushed on patrol or bombarded at their FOBs with impunity by the more skilled and better equipped with long-range 130mm artillery enemy.

http://www.combatreform.com/fries.htm

What the USMC brass should have done is REPLACE their worn-out Ontos(es) and IMPROVE ON ITS DESIGN by taking a SAFER DIESEL-powered M113 Gavin and reducing its size so it be light and small enough to roll-on/off from INSIDE helicopters to attain Air-Mech-Strike 3D maneuver warfare capabilities. In other words, a M113 Gavin-based "Ontos II" gaining 45+ mph speeds, cross-country and amphibious capabilities to be both a mini-APC and a German-style mini-STUG assault gun. Aris Spa of Italy today even makes waterjet kits for M113 Gavins to enable them to swim in the ocean, ship-to-shore as "AmphiGavins".

So today you have marines boast of Ontos tankettes that they retired, Close Air Support that they don't practice having retired SkyRaiders in 1958, SkyHawks in the '80s and OV-10 manned observation AFACs that were ditched in the 90s:

http://www.combatreform.com/killerbees3.htm

What marines brag about "having" and then not doing never ends.

Want to know more?

Our book, "Air-Mech-Strike: Asymmetric Maneuver Warfare for the 21st Century" is ONLINE for FREE skyjacked by Google!

http://books.google.com/books?id=RCWtHnYZ0LMC&pg

Category:

Science & Technology

Tags:

• M50
• ontos
• general
• gavin
• usmc
• battle
• defeats
• vietnam
• war
• foot-slogging
• air_mech_strike

[dynmicpara]

oldjarheadvet writes:

"Second, we used beehive rounds, willie peter, and HE rounds back in 1970 defending An Hoa combat base, Golf Sector. At one point it was six marines and our 106 against at least 1500 NVA."

[dynmicpara]

That's the whole point: stop this stupid man-with-a-rifle fight-the-enemy-even stupidity and fight with SUPERIORITY in weapons, equipment and tactics...retiring the 106mm RR is not indicative of competence...

[dynmicpara]

USMC re-powered the M-50A1 with a Chrysler V-8 in '64. Then added the Fleshette round in 1967, WORLD's LARGEST SHOTGUN.

Steve - HUE CITY VET A-23 or ONTOSMAN

[dynmicpara]

U.S. Army developed the Flechette round since it used the awesome 106mm recoilless rifle on M113 Gavins and jeeps.

[barbaralovesblack]

HEP to the rescue!

[BlacktailFA]

barbaralovesblack,

The British developed a Recoilless Rifle with a bore that size, the WOBMBAT (Weapon Of Magnesium, Batallion Anti-Tank), and a similar US weapon firing it's ammo would be able to hammer the ever-loving crap out of just about anything you could shoot it at.

A "Neo-Ontos" carrying a whole bunch of those would be THAT much more devastating.

But you do have a point about 120mm gun-mortars --- they would provide both direct AND indirect-fire capabilities through the same vehicle.

[Fuzzmanz]

Love these old pigs. Stationed w/ 5th Anti-tanks in Okinawa in 68, went to 26th Marines in 69 as 0317

[astrialkil]

@BlacktailFA The marines have the stryker which has thin steel armor like the ontos and the stryker is faster then the ontos. the ontos would be harder to see as its smaller but the marines wont change there tactics and would still drive on the roads and get hit by IED's, so instead of piles of destroyed strikers you would have piles of destroyed ontos's . Bad tactic isn't over come by better equipment.

[ThumbWarDestroyer]

Marines like to think they get all the girls, all the glory...the fact is they are brainwashed. They're "man with a rifle vs. overwhelming forces" tactics work against inept, panicky and poorly trained forces. Against a large, mechanized infantry (like the US Army) they're tactics would lead to massive casualties. The Army isn't a "slower" fighter, it's just a more conserved, methodical fighter. Saves a lot of lives that way.

[barbaralovesblack]

It certainly had it's role; but I think I'd rather have a 120-mm gun/mortar. Somewhat bigger warhead, smaller munition, more rounds stowed. :-)

[BlacktailFA]

This was a truly amazing machine.

The insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan would have been totally screwed if we had any of THESE to send...