Unknown Orchestra but labelled asTed Lewis and his Orchestra - 10.000 Years Ago 1933

Although on the same day (July 28, 1933) the real Ted Lewis Orchestra cut two sides after this tune was recorded, this is definitely not the Ted Lewis band and the band and soloists are so far unidentified. Although the singer has been suggested as Vernon Dalhart, this singer doesn't actually sound like him, nor was Dalhart under contract at Columbia and the filecard does not mention his name - which would probably have been the case had it indeed been Dalhart! Ideas about which band this may be are very welcome!

Category:

Music

Tags:

• Ted
• Lewis
• ten
• thousand
• years
• ago
• jazz
• bix
• trumbauer

[RatPfink66]

Lewis played the Bay Area at least twice in mid 1932 and could easily have picked up a promising local musician and taken him on the road. And he was back in SF in fall, 1933, about when Camgros joined Coakley (he replaced Tony Martin!).

[harryoakley]

@RatPfink66 Where did you get that information? Nothing in my files or the discographies confirms these dates.

[RatPfink66]

Left-field guess on that tenor soloist - and I play tenor myself, FWIW...

He reminds me of a wild tenorman from San Francisco - Armand Camgros - who tripled as a Venuti-esque hot fiddler and a polite tenor vocalist. (Seriously!)

Armand recorded mostly with Tom Coakley on McGregor ETs - plus a very few Victor sides.

He joined Coakley in fall '33. Sadly, I can't share the McGregors because a friend of a friend ripped 'em for me. But that same wild tenor - unmistakable - shows up on more than one!

[harryoakley]

@RatPfink66 A very interesting theory - thanks! What goes against it though is the location of this recording: Chicago.

[jpmfm54]

For the pleasure of argument, it is obvious for me that the trombone soloist (Sam Blank?) is the same on Gold Diggers (April 33), Stormy Weather (May), Rhythm (June), Ten Thousand (July 33) and Jazznocracy (August 34). I hear the same rhythm section (sound and pulse) on all these numbers, and the same clarinet (Slats Long?) except for Jazznocracy. About Muggsy, it's less clear, but I am not completely convinced that he is not present on Rhythm. The sound is different, but the phrasing the same.

[harryoakley]

@jpmfm54 I beg to differ. No trace of Muggsy, rhythm section sounds completely different, bassist is definitely not Harry Barth, tenorsax is not on any other Lewis recording and the clarinet is certainly not Long or Glassman. In view of the fact that this side sounds so much different, in every respect, to the other sides from the same session I (and many others) conclude that it's not the Ted Lewis band on "10.000 Years Ago", unless Lewis brought two entirely different bands to the studio.

[RatPfink66]

Mostly google. I can send you the web URLs "off-comments" to keep things tidy.

Whoever that tenorman is, he was playing some way out $#!! for a White musician of that day, and probably doing it on one of the new metal mouthpieces. Both betray Coleman Hawkins' influence.

[suaveoo]

OK - listening again to this side. Vocalist is NOT Vernon Dalhart (what would he have sounded like in 1933, anyway?) - does anyone have the new Dance Band books, do they give a vocalist's name? The trombonist is the same as the Decca Lewis version of "Jazznochracy". Clearly there is SOME sort of connection between this band and the Decca date. Augmented band, with key players out and different players in, perhaps ??

[suaveoo]

Well, here I come into this (for better or worse!) - "Ten Thousand Years Ago" is audibly the same band that plays "Rhythm". We must not forget that Lewis had to change with the times - there are sides where Spanier and Brunies are heard quite clearly, and others where a more streamlined style comes into play. 1933 / 1934 are really years of great change in music, and why wouldn't Lewis have also realized that? Ted Lewis sides of 1931 couldn't possibly sound the same as 1933 or 1934.