Britain's Road to Socialism - Communism or Social Democracy?

Britain's Road to Socialism -- Communism or Social Democracy?
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Introduction [start - 1.26 min]:

Interestingly, the Communist Party of Britain (CPB), while retaining the name 'communist' do not stand for communism. They consistently stand for the Labour Party - that is, social democracy. That is the essence of their program "the British Road to Socialism" (BRS).

Nor are they alone in holding up the Labour party as the party of the working class (SWP, et al.)

They support British Imperialism with a 'workerist' veneer. Except that since 'bomber Blair' took over the Labour party (and abolished clause IV, invaded Yugoslavia, Sierra Leone, Afghanistan and Iraq, enforced anti-trade union legislation, etc., etc.,) even the veneer is gone! So it's no wonder the CPB get themselves twisted in a bit of a knot trying to justify their position.
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CPGB-ML vs CPB debate the British Road to Socialism [01.26 min -- 30.02 min]

This interesting debate between an experienced and sophisticated old CPB member Jim White, and Harpal Brar, chairman of the CPGB-ML (inter alia), goes a long way to explaining why the CPB's politics are bankrupt, played out and incapable of leading workers anywhere, except deeper into the mire of subjection to capitalist crisis and imperialist war.

It also explains why the CPGB-ML needed to be formed and needs your support!


Further Reading:

Social Democracy, the Enemy Within (by Harparl Brar):
http://www.cpgb-ml.org/index.php?secName=books&subName=display&bookId=3

Imperialism and War (by Harpal Brar):
http://www.cpgb-ml.org/index.php?secName=books&subName=display&bookId=13

Homepage of the CPGB-ML:
http://www.cpgb-ml.org

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transcript (outline):
JW of CPB [01.26 min]: Stalin wrote the British Road to Socialism -- there's 'proof' on the internet.
HB of CPGB-ML [01.45 min]: We have no evidence to support the assertion that Stalin supported the British Road to Socialism.
However, let us assume that he did -- our position remains that the BRS is wrong; that it is not a program of revolution, but one that subjects the communist movement to social democracy.
CPB [03.09 min]: Was the 1929 - 1934 Comintern line of 'Class against Class' correct? Did it undermine the popular front against fascism?
CPB [04.18]: was it wrong to change its line?
CPGB-ML answer [04.21]: No, not once the Hitlerites had come to power. The basis of the correct line is the material conditions; the world situation in which it takes place.
Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. [07.30] (So called Hitler-Stalin pact).
Market Socialism [08.18]
CPGB-ML [12.05 min]: How can we support as labour party that attacks working people at home and oppressed nations abroad? (Iraq, Afghanistan, Supports Zionist Israel, Saudi Arabian regime, Egyptian regime).

CPB [13.40 min]: What about the traditions of this country? The struggle for parliamentary democracy has resulted in all that the Labour Party has given us: the Welfare State.
CPGB-ML [16.00 min]: Neither I nor my comrades are telling you these things are not important. But they are not the product of Social democracy, but the product of the victories of the Red army after the second world war and the ferment in the working class movement afterwards.

CPB [18.10]: 10 million people vote Labour, but virtually no-one votes communist!
CPGB-ML [18.18]: No-one will vote communist until the communists mobilise as communists and stop telling working people that Labour is the party of the working class!

CPB [18.45]: The CPGB-ML doesn't stand in elections; you're a debating society; you're not in the class struggle.
CPGB-ML [19.10 min]: No, we have not. We are a five year-old party. We don't claim to be the movers and the shakers of the working class movement. But we are a serious party and we have a long term project to build a viable anti-imperialist leadership of the working class movement in Britain.

CPB [20.30]: Lenin told communists to affiliate to the Labour party!
CPGB-ML Answer [21.00 min]

CPGB-ML (HB) [28.35]: Really, all these arguments of our CPB comrades come down to the following: "Labour is an imperialist party, but it is our party! These are our traditions."

Category:

Education

Tags:

• Britain's Road to Socialism
• BRS
• CPGB-ML
• CPB
• Jim
• White
• Harpal
• Brar
• Communism
• Socialism
• Social
• Democracy
• Labour Party
• war
• imperialism
• capitalism
• thatcher
• blair
• lenin
• stalin
• politt
• palme-dutt
• fascism
• hitler-stalin pact
• united front
• Iraq
• Afghanistan
• Yugoslavia
• Israel
• Palestine

[WeTheC]

Why does CPB support Labour? Forget about relating to Marxist/ Leninist/ Communist ideologies, Labour don’t even support the desperate cries from Trade Unions for their existence support.

What a pathetic fall Labour had, and what sort of leaders it is rearing these days! Current one appears not to know the basics of public speaking. Previous one called his own party a bigot. The one prior to him charges by minute for his words. Does CPB believe these leaders could bring in Socialism to UK?

[ProletarianCPGBML]

@WeTheC Its economic and historical ties. That was the way our movement was corrupted in the 50s onwards. We must reclaim it: see "socil democracy - the enemy within" by harpal brar at cpgb-ml.org

[Laughingblades]

What's that song in the beginning?

[ProletarianCPGBML]

@Laughingblades lowkey - relatives

[buzzhawk]

@Laughingblades You should read Marx's Critique of the Gotha Programme and see what he has to say about lassalleanism.

[buzzhawk]

@Laughingblades Very egalitarian also. 

[buzzhawk]

@Laughingblades "At the end of 2010 it was providing employment for 83,859 people working in 256 companies in four areas of activity: Finance, Industry, Retail and Knowledge."

Hmm, that's a very significant number of workers when it comes to the whole.

These ratios range from 3:1 to 9:1 in different cooperatives and average 5:1. That is, the general manager of an average Mondragon cooperative earns 5 times as much as the theoretical minimum wage paid in his/her cooperative."

[ComradeZX]

The CPGB will not be able to build a new working class movement if members show a lack of interest to comrades views and opinions. The CPGB is constantly talking over people in this video and the speaker on the right seems to be more interested in twiddling his thumbs! (literally)

[lonewolf031]

@dialectical44 And you paid attention... you get a gold star, Oh wait you want socialism you have to share it with 20 people you don't know.

[Laughingblades]

@dialectical44 :p Communism is more utopian that socialism IMO, socialism is pragmatic and broad enough to apply to different systems, from state socialism (wherein common ownership, at least in theory, exists through the state) to syndicalism (wherein the workers democratically control the work place themselves).

The Mondragon Cooperative Corporation proves you wrong and implores you to reassess your ridiculous claim.

[Laughingblades]

@dialectical44 Personally I prefer a worker cooperative society along the lines of syndicalism with a minimal state government subject to direct democracy that exists to provide basic services (infrastructure, welfare, defense) and legal protections for the general public.

Norway and Sweden have mixed economies and benefit greatly from the socialist aspects of their economies, that they also have state capitalism is incidental. Unfortunately 500 characters doesn't leave much room

[dialectical44]

@Laughingblades

Just what in the world are you propogating? Its hard to tell with your scattergun of "facts" and "opinions" And what does Ron Paul have to do with anything?.

Norway and Sweden are not Socialist countries, they are Capitalist. Can you reference the "Socialist reforms" in India that you claim to have taken place? What are you? a Libertarian Capitalist?, a Social Dem????? With "Socialists" like you who needs enemies?

[dialectical44]

@Laughingblades

Scientific Communism, founded by Marx and Engels is in contrast to utopian socialism. It is based on science and knowledge of laws of historical development. No utopian socialist has ever succeded in attaining a materialist comprehension of history or revealing the inevitable driving force of the future of society. Only a revolution of productive forces, which is inevitable, and the emergence of the proletariat can convert utopian socialism to a science.

[dialectical44]

@lonewolf031

Next up ladies and gents, lonewolf031 will explain in excruciating detail how 2 +2 =5