Hebrews 1 guarantees the Trinity!

If you are a Jehovah's Witness and you see this video, I encourage you to open your Bible and compare Hebrews 1:10-12 with Psalm 102:25-27. The writer of Hebrews quotes the Old Testament and attributes it to Jesus and the passage he quoted is undeniably about Jehovah, therefore the writer of Hebrews is affirming that Jesus IS Jehovah God. Look up the verses, even in your NWT, it proves that Jesus is Jehovah.

Hebrews 1 is unequivocal proof that Jesus, the Son, is Yahweh/Jehovah, is an eternal person, the creator of all things and yet distinct in person-hood from the Father. The writer of Hebrews proves that he was a Trinitarian.

Dr. James White defines the Trinity thus:

"Within the one Being [Yahweh] that is God, there exists eternally three coequal and coeternal persons, namely, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit."

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[LothairOfLorraine]

Is it possible that the worship due to Christ [see, Heb 1:6] is of a type not of the same formality as that which is given to the Father? It may be that the reverence given to Christ is of a differernt species [see, Heb 1:8ff]. The Son is set above his companions by God, not by his own nature or choosing. The Son certainly is above men and angels [Heb 1:5] but that honor is fixed in a choice made by the Father, and not of the Son's freewill.

[ETHANGELIST]

@LothairOfLorraine Well, one of the things I've missed in this video is the mention of the Greek Septuagint's Deu 32:43. Heb 1:6 is actually a quotation from that verse. Deu 32:43 in the English translation of the LXX says this:

"Rejoice, ye heavens, with him, and let all the angels of God worship him"

And guess who is being worshiped in the context? JEHOVAH. And guess who the writer of Hebrews applies this to? JESUS. So therefore Jesus is Jehovah according to the author?

[HeroOfChristArchives]

@msm1876 said: "Qanah... is used in Eve's quote. It is translated εκτησαμην..."

Yes, we're WAY past that. (Did you bother reading this info in my last message?)

@msm1876 said: "εκτησαμην... means obtained, or brought forth"

You are hopelessly confused. The Hebrew word occurring in Genesis 4:1 which means "brought forth" is ותלד (vateled), translated by the LXX scribe as ετεκεν (eteken, "brought forth, bore"). Greek εκτησατο means "acquired, obtained, procured, purchased," NOT "brought forth."

[msm1876]

@HeroOfChristArchives 'Scuse me, not bara, qanah. And it certainly IS used in Eve's quote. And it is translated εκτησαμην in the LXX, which means obtained, or brought forth. And Christ was BROUGHT FORTH by God, via his eternal generation...

Which is exactly how the ECFs applied the LXX version of Proverbs 8:22 to Jesus. As all the info I posted above shows, they did NOT believe him to be a creature, as that word doesn't JUST have the sense of "making" something.

[HeroOfChristArchives]

@msm1876 said: "Does not Gen 4:1 indicate that Eve brought forth a man? Bara is used..."

No, ברא (bara') does not occur in Genesis 4:1. Crosscheck your info. The verse states that Eve conceived (חוה = harah) and later bore (ילד = yalad; conjugate ותלד occurs here) Cain.

@msm1876 said: "A derivative of ektisen is used in the LXX"

No, a derivative of ektisen does not occur here. Greek συλλαβουσα (conceived) translates חוה, ετεκεν (bore) translates ילד, and εκτησαμην (obtained) translates קניתי.

[msm1876]

@H You shouldn't be lecturing me, you should be lecturing the pre-nicene church as a whole. Very simply, they saw εκτισεν to be about what God PRODUCED, by MAKING it, or bringing it forth, GENERATING it.

Does not Gen 4:1 indicate that Eve brought forth a man? Bara is used, and a derivative of ektisen is used in the LXX. If you want to say that people who believed Christ was YHWH who applied this verse to him believed he was made, again, help yourself.

[HeroOfChristArchives]

@msm1876 said: "Your view of Etkitsen is far too narrow."

First, the word is εκτισεν (ektisen), not ετκιτσεν (not a word).

Second, no where does εκτισεν ever mean "generate." The Greek word for "generate" is γενναο (gennao). IF the scribes intended to translate their Hebrew exemplar as "generate," they would have written the Greek word εγεννησεν (egennesen, "generated, procreated, brought forth, begotten" — aorist active indicative third-person singular). Instead, they wrote εκτισεν (CREATED).

[msm1876]

@HeroOfChristArchives **Sigh** Your view of Etkitsen is far too narrow. Please read Pope Dionysius' letter "Against the Sabellians" and you will see him saying in Chapter 2: For, as ye know, there is more than one signification of the word "created; "and in this place "created" is the same as "set over" the works made by Himself-made, I say, by the Son Himself. But this "created" is not to be understood in the same manner as "made."

It's about Christ being GENERATED.

THE END.

[HeroOfChristArchives]

@msm1876

{Continued}

The Hebrew term קנה (qanah) occurs 84 times (in 76 verses) in the Masoretic Tanakh. Of these 84, the Greek LXX parallel is εκτησατο (acquire, obtain, procure, purchase) or one of its conjugates a whopping 67 times, or 80% of the time. The Greek αγοραζων (buy) and αγοραζω (buy) occur as parallels in 1 Chronicles 21:24; αγορασαι (buy) occurs in 2 Chronicles 34:11. Besides Proverbs 8:22, the Greek εκτισεν (create) occurs as a parallel only in Genesis 14:19 and Genesis 14:22.

[HeroOfChristArchives]

@msm1876 - Who is flip-flopping here? You were hitherto praising the LXX, but now you've resorted to ignoring the LXX rendering in favor of the Masoretic. Why?

@msm1876 said: "(I) do not accept that (εκτισεν) means 'create from nothing'"

Neither do I. The Greek term εκτισεν does not mean "create from nothing," but it does mean CREATE just as it occurs exactly in Mark 13:19 ("creation which God CREATED"), 1 Timothy 4:3 ("foods which God CREATED"), and Revelation 10:6 ("He who CREATED Heaven").