Eternity and States: A Rebuttal to VenomfangXs Chocolate Bar Argument

The following is a philosophical response to VenomfangXs claim that the prior eternal existence of the universe is impossible. I essentially argue that the universe is a succession of states and even an eternal universe could demonstrate such a succession.
All material used in the making of this video is public domain or is intended to be used in accord with title 17 section 107 of the U.S. Code pertaining to fair use for comment and criticism:
http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#107

Script: One of VenomfangXs grounding assumptions is that the universe could not have always
existed in some fashion. This begins with VenomfangXs chocolate bar argument: (SEE: video clip)
This is the beginning of his initial proof of Gods supposed necessity. According to him, the present moment could never have come to be if the universe has existed eternally, the current state of affairs could only arise if the universe were created some finite quantity of time in the past. According to him, it then follows that there must be some being outside of space-time that created space-time, because anything that has a beginning cannot come from nothing.




Given that this is at the root of venoms theology, rebutting this argument should destabilize any conclusions that follow.
Now I am not a scientist. I am a philosopher, so I have to tackle this argument on logical grounds. Let us consider some foundational premises.
1) Basically the universe is a collection of dynamic things.
2) A collection of things must always exist in a state.
3) This moment is just the current state of things.
If the universe has always existed, then it has always existed in some state. The state of the universe at any given moment is actual so it must be possible. The current state of the universe is presently actual so it too must be possible. Things in the universe are dynamic, so they produce new states from moment to moment. Any possible state can come into existence in the universe and therefore any possible state can potentially be produced by changes in the universe. So the universe could always have always existed, and the dynamic things in the universe could eventually produce the current state.
As long as the conditions in the universe allow the current state to be possible, there is never any causal problem with the current state coming into being. VenomfangXs fallacy is that the situation he describes places constraints on the possible states of the universe. i.e. he chooses never to give you the chocolate bar in his hypothetical situation. He has created an artificial constraint upon the possible states of reality.
There are natural sorts of constraints upon reality. For instance there are logical ones: something cannot both be and not be. It does not matter how much time has passed or will pass, this will always be true. There are also physical limitations, gravity causes massive objects to attract rather than repel each other, and the behavior of the universe must be consistent with this reality. There is also the possibility of artificial constraints, states that can never come into existence because beings, like VenomfangX, do not allow them to come to fruition. The prior eternal existence of the universe in some form does not fall under any of these categories of constraints, however.
This does not disprove God, but it does show that God is not necessary for the reasons Venom suggests. VenomfangX, I await your reply. Dude4Reason

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[boonw]

He wont reply, that would mean he would have to argue against someone he knows he is going to loose. Didnt you see him shank out of the "debate" with dprjones? While on his site i got 20 people to say they would watch a debate between me and PCS, when I gave him the list he banned me.

[Dude4Reason]

I posted this video as reply to one his videos originally. He seemed to reject it, although I was not that familiar with the system them so I may have set it up incorrectly. I am not that surprised he not replied, I am a small fish. Dprjones is not anymore however.

[alexd29]

@alexd29 Plus, the moment you say that god existed before time, you're placing god within time. Because time is based off of the concept of before and after.

[alexd29]

With this logic, if god is eternal, wouldn't he never get the chance to create the universe?

[KevZen2000]

I think the universe, has existed forever,but I do not know in what form. The big bang does not say that the universe, has not existed in some time before the 13-20 bya,it just says, that there was a singularity, which is only a condense form of the energy that the universe exist upon.

[Deathrape2001]

false alternative fallacy - yawn.

"Vegas can only exist if somebody promises U nachos from the Hotel"

God what a retard.

[srh1502]

why all the food arguements? banana, peanut butter, and now a chocolate bar... Maybe they can get somewhere if they don't get their arguements by going into their kitchen and thinking "god made this food, obviously"

[jarbon5]

^^^^^---- has his hand out, waiting an infinite amount of time to get his chocolate bar, and boy, he can't wait to get it!

[Exception88]

I think I can barely follow this; god I'm dumb.

[khoe1233]

venomfang does not hv so much time. THat's an assumption

[boonw]

Well, if you go to his site directly, you may be able to contact him real time. He has a big ego, so either pretend to be someone else who wants him to "defeat" your argument, or address yourself as the author and try and flatter him. He isnt that bright.