Z vs. Rory - shinai & nylon longsword

Sparring session 2011 - 20/03 - 07

Category:

Sports

Tags:

• martial arts
• longsword vs. shinai
• HEMA
• AMEK

[SG1RoolsTheRoost]

What's with grabbing the shinai and jumping on the kendoka? Thought this would be about skill, not brawn.

[mindhost]

@SG1RoolsTheRoost - perhaps you are being facetious (if "SG1" stands for what I think it does) but otherwise just google or youtube-search 'ringen am schwert'. Grabbing the opponents sword to disarm them and then wrestling/kicking/throwing etc are perfectly valid and encouraged actions within historical european fighting systems.

[SG1RoolsTheRoost]

@mindhost - No, I wasn't being funny. As was mentioned by the videographer, this didn't answer the question of shinai v. longsword. I'm not totally defending the shinai-wielder. He had head shots avail., etc. I've done kendo sparring, only, and I'm no expert, either. I've generally been taught that grabbing the opponent's blade is not all that wise. Just my humble opinion given...and it's worth the cost!

[mindhost]

@SG1RoolsTheRoost - Fair enough. Apologies for the presumption but I just thought that the 'SG' in your name might have stood for 'Schola Gladiatoria' in which case you would have been familiar with Fiore De Libere's Flos Duellatorum grappling techniques with the sword. Perhaps in Kendo grabbing the blade is not done, but within our systems we certainly do, and it's considered a skill. Grappling is central to armoured combat or 'harnissfechten' similar to 'yoroi kumiuchi' perhaps?

[Railriderchris]

Nice! It really reminds me when i faced a medieval fighter for the first time! When you learn to use the Katana you mainly train the sword vs sword fight. But when those troublesome medieval warriors close in to grab your hilt, punch you in the face or simply push you backwards so you find yourself on the ground, it's very surprising... And instructive X-D

[Railriderchris]

@superdruid999 The problem is that Kendo has such short, fast movements that you react mainly from years of training who end up in an instinctive way of reacting. Now it's just a matter of becoming used to another fighting style but at the beginning it looks like: LSuser begins his attack, the Kendoka reacts instantly with a trained move, but since the LSwielder hasn't even really started his attack he can change to another assault. But in the end a Kendoka would learn how to deal with it ;-)

[Railriderchris]

@superdruid999 Well, personally i'm not that much an adherent of the sword grasping. My personal way of thinking is that if i've got the time and opportunity to take hold of his sword i could rather punch him in the face instead of losing my fingers (like i said i know it's possible, i've experienced it with sharp blades myself. But still i'm not too comfortable with it since there is some danger ;-) )

[superdruid999]

@Railriderchris "When you fight an enemy with the big, powerful movements of a longsword you tend to react too fast" so the kendokas timing was off because hes not used to sparring against this type of opponent? makes sense. seemed like a fun match nonetheless

[superdruid999]

@Railriderchris and now that you say that, the back side of a katana is not sharp. still a skilled kenjutsuka could be able to easily and quickly flip it to cut the hand (if he sees it coming of course) so still dangerous and need to time it wel. the longsword user did show that hes good at it though.

[superdruid999]

@Railriderchris actually now that you say it, i havent asked him. what i do know is that he learned his kenjutsu techniques from the same guy that teaches him aikido. he also had a really strange way of holding his bokken in some instances. like cradling a baby, letting the blade rest on his arm (think ive seen a western version of it to). though it shouldnt be surprising that grappling is used in (at least in some styles) of kenjutsu. after all judo originated from it.

[Railriderchris]

@superdruid999 Interesting, do you know what Kenjutsu school he was going to? I know only Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu, and there aren't any grappling/wrestling techniques... Or maybe they'll come only when i'm at a higher level of apprenticeship ;-)

[Railriderchris]

@superdruid999 The problem is that in Kendo you're acustomed to the very fast but powerless Shinai strikes. When you fight an enemy with the big, powerful movements of a longsword you tend to react too fast and thus give an opening. So i can understand my fellow kendoka being cautious. Besides we're not trained to fight with/against such low/unpredictable/grappling techniques.

Yes i believe it's not the sword that matters but the wielder ;-)

[Railriderchris]

@superdruid999 Yes it's dangerous, but it's far from impossible: For cutting a swordblade needs either kinetic energy, a cutting movement (like cutting bread) or both. So if you can grab a blade so firmly that it won't move in your hand and can apply the technique before the opponent can pull the sword back it's possible even if the sword is razorsharp. Furthermore medieval fighters are often wearing thick gloves.

/watch?v=Xfb6g786Y8M#t=1m46s

[superdruid999]

kind of a poor performance from the kendoka if you ask me. he seemed slow to react to attacks that should have been easy to block. the longsword user seemed more skilled at sword fighting in general. dont think the result would have been any different if the longsword guy changed style and switched to a bokken :/

[superdruid999]

wouldnt grabbing the blade of an actual sharp sword be a really bad idea? wouldnt he just lose his fingers if that was a real katana? all the kendoka would have to do is jerk it back right?