John Piper - Did God's Plan Include Sin from the Beginning?

"The Fatal Disobedience of Adam and the Triumphant Obedience of Christ"

Romans 5:12-21
August 26, 2007

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[rudeboywaz]

so he kills person for his oun mistake of creating people that can sin. lamb aggment

ansd this guy did what most cristhanss do when posed with a Questhan god loves you. not really he killed hes son for hes mistake punesed someone else for his mistakes aswell as make femalef bear laber becuose of hes oun unjustic then he can not be god.. the aggment is simple if god know about sin then hes killing hes son unjustly aswell as blaming others for hioun mistake if he didnt hes not allknowing simlpe

[polopowers1]

The death of Christ is not about sin primarily. The death of Christ is first the extolling of God's Person. What would equal God's Nature.? Someone High as God Himself in Holy Character. The Nature of God can only be satisfied by the Nature of God Himself for justice done righteousness imputed. Yes, God revealed Himself through the cross but Christ did not just satisfy sin's offense but all the Nature of God not found in law or the breaking of it.!

[Requiemxtoxinnocence]

@ebj1871 The only thing you are missing in your analogy is that if the woman didn't accept your flowers you would torture her forever until she said she loved you, while in another scenario if I had to buy her flowers she could choose to accept them or not but still know I loved her regardless with no consequence.

[ebj1871]

@Requiemxtoxinnocence @killerproctologist88 wait wait sorry but to add in 2 cents, haha. Requie, it seems like you're slightly missing the point. It's like a wife. If you bought you wife flowers just because it was tuesday, she would love you and love it. But if you bought them and told her that you "had" to because she is your wife....she wouldn't accept that as loving. That is religion not love. Ok, sorry to bring yall back. I just wanted to say that. Ok bye

[Requiemxtoxinnocence]

@killerproctologist88 Funny you claim I made stuff up when you said the earth was less than 4.5 billion years old as proven by your holy book. Thanks for the conversation.

[killerproctologist88]

@Requiemxtoxinnocence You're making stuff up now. I'll leave you alone.

[Requiemxtoxinnocence]

@killerproctologist88 Love works based upon two interactions between two beings that can understand one another and care for them, who are there for one another until the end. Your god has none of these aspects and evil is not a part of it at all. The fact that god allows hell to exist and allow for people to be there is testament to his own evil. Love also doesn't threaten, nor put them in a place with no options. God is not love but evil and nothingness who rules with an iron fist.

[killerproctologist88]

@Requiemxtoxinnocence Nothing works without love. In order to experience true love, there HAS to be evil. Otherwise we would not be able to distinguish between the two (good and evil) thus sincere true unconditional love would not ever be experienced by human beings. That would be hell on earth my friend and as bad as it can be here, it's never as bad as hell actually is.

[Requiemxtoxinnocence]

@killerproctologist88 HAHAHHA you're a young earth creationist, I've taken a geology class and know how they measure the age of the earth and you are completely wrong. Many civilizations thought they had revelations from gods and we know humans try to find agency in what they don't understand. As far as i'm concerned I don't know god, perhaps if he shows up i'll accept him if he is good. But Yahweh is not that perfect god.

[Requiemxtoxinnocence]

@killerproctologist88 I am no pawn to either actually, i'm an agnostic but certainly open tot he idea of gods if there is any proof. God allowing evil makes god imperfect himself. Why should I be saved from a god that cannot allow me or any other another choice apart from heaven or hell? Who would allow for evil to roam free unchecked. I ask for a third option.