Salvation and Water Baptism (Apostolics vs Trinitarians 1/5)

David Bernard & J.L Hall vs. Ed Havaich & Robert Morey

Category:

Education

Tags:

• Salvation
• Water
• Baptism
• Baptize
• Apostolic
• Oneness
• Trinity
• Trinitarians

[djvdiddy]

I agree that a man must follow the commands of Jesus on baptism. If he refuses to then I would suggest to him that his conversion is not genuine. We continually see in the bible that if man doent repent, he will perish, & if he has no faith he will likewise perish. But nowhere does it say these things of baptism. Just like circumcision in the old testement; it was a holy thing of God, but then man made a savior out of it! Same w/ baptism, A holy thing of God and man has made a savoir out of it.

[FalseTrinityDoctrine]

If baptism is a commandment, then that comes into the realm of obedience and if you don't obey, then where is your salvation? (Heb 5:9)

[djvdiddy]

Why would God make the Availability of water necessary for justification? So all the people in Ethiopia have no chance to be saved because theres just not enough water? If I get on my face and beg God for mercy, & trust in Christ for my salvation must I then go find some water for my sins to be forgiven? God reconciles the sinner upon Faith alone! Romans 4:5 states that our FAITH counted as rightiousness. Trust in what Christ already did 4 u, not what you have to go do...God Bless!!

[FalseTrinityDoctrine]

There is no such thing as "Saved by Faith Alone". If someone in Ethiopia didn't have water do you not think that God would be merciful by seeing that the pureness of that persons heart? If their is water around, then their shouldn't be any excuse to not be buried with Christ.

[Truthorfable]

You must harmonize the book of Romans with Acts Robert Morey. The bible is like is like a gaint puzzle where we must harmonize all scripture to fit our doctrine.

[FalseTrinityDoctrine]

You mean harmonize your doctrine to fit all scripture :)

[swenmanwwjd12]

@djvdiddy I want bible, chapter and verse where it says faith "ALONE." If you can't give bible then your position is ruined.

[domokunroxj00]

Both sides of this argument have some truth and some falsehood. Problem is that neither take in complete truth.

Obedience is NOT a work. Especially when it comes to baptism by water.

Grace requires a response. That response is to CONSENT to a life of faith and obedience to the best of your ability. You are justified by faith, not grace.

The speaking in tongues thing though, is nonsense. Just drop the false act already.

[sorens70601]

....an "act" on our part, as a "Result of", or "Because of", (Greek "EIS") Salvation. 1.Pet.3:21, makes it clear that "water baptism" is  not " the putting away the filth of the flesh". It also tels us that "water Baptism" is a 'Like figure unto", that spiritual act of baptism that does save , ( i.e. 1.Cor.12:13, Gal.3:26-27, Col2:11-13) The UPC teaching on Baptism is so far from the TRUTH, it beggars description !!! Just as their "One-ness" deception, it is a massive spiritual FRAUD !!

[sorens70601]

...This is also confirmed in Gal.3:26-27, Notice verse 26 says we are all the children of God "By FAITH",(not water baptism) but in the next verse, by being "Baptized INTO CHRIST", (as the element,cf 1.Cor.12:13) That is the biblical doctrine of salvation. Only AFTER such "baptism into Christ" (the "element") By the "Holy Spirit",(the "agent") do we Now become a candidate, for "Water baptism"(water being the "element", and a pastor or elder being the "agent") Water Baptism therefore, is ...

[sorens70601]

...this is what the scriptures call; "the circumcission done without hands", Col.2:11-13. Notice in this passage, that this "circumcission without hands" is teh literal "putting of the body of the SINS of the flesh", and that the being "burrid with Him in baptism" is the "operation of God", (the Holy Spirit) and we being "Dead in the flesh, Hath He ,(God, and not the pastor) "quickened", (Made spiritually alive) "together with Him,(Christ, who you were "baptized into" as the "element")....

[sorens70601]

...constitutes the word "Baptism". Baptism is defined by three things, the "candidate", (the one to be baptised) the "element", (that substance into which the symbolic "burial" takes place) and the "agent", (the one who performs the Baptism) The scriptures clearly teach, that we are "Baptised By one Spirit",( the "Agent") " into one body" (the the literal body of Christ, in a spiritual sense, 1.Cor.12:13) So this makes it clear that the "Agent" is not a pastor or elder, but the Holy Spirit..

[sorens70601]

@FalseTrinityDoctrine ...Absolutely WRONG !!! Everyone is "saved" by grace through "faith alone". Water Baptism is "Because of" salvation, and as "a result of " salvation, and for the purpose of receiving the Holy Spirit baptism. This is why 1.Pet.3:21 declares that it is an "Answer", of a "Good conscience". An "answer" is a Response to, or reaction as a result of, a pre-existing action, (such action being salvation through faith alone) Your ERROR stems from your Not understanding what...

[swenmanwwjd12]

@djvdiddy We have to keep the commandments but to use them to prove we are righteous is a violation in God's eyes. If we do this they will be considered works of men and not of God. That's what I am saying about not stealing or lying or not coveting that if we think because we don't do those things we are right with God then those things will be considered works of men in the eyes of God. We need to OBEY the gospel first and then do these things out of a pure heart. Believing is obeying. Jn 3:36

[swenmanwwjd12]

@djvdiddy You also seem to have an unhealthy view on faith and works. First of all there is a difference between the works of God and the works of men. The works of men will not save us (keeping the commandments and helping the poor etc.) these are the works the bible preaches against in terms of salvation. But the works of God will save us. Water baptism and receiving God's Spirit are His works in us. Tit. 3:5 That's what He does in us. We didn't give ourselves water & Spirit. He did. Come on!

[swenmanwwjd12]

@djvdiddy Don't be a fool. You are concerned for the Ethiopians in an unhealthy way. Measuring yourself by them. Read Jn. 21:21-22 Just like Jesus rebuked Peter and said "you follow me" He didn't mean Peter wasn't supposed to be concerned for John. Peter asked the same question you asked about people in Ethiopa. " ...and what shall this man do?" And God's response is the same to you as it was to Peter "you follow me." You have to have the truth yourself before you can help people in Ethiopa.