Wigner's Friend's Quantum Mind

EITHER minds can collapse wave-functions in the same way that unconscious measuring apparatuses can, OR substance dualism is true.

Links:

1.) The Wigner's Friend thought experiment: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wigner%27s_friend
2.) Penrose's lecture: www.youtube.com/watch?v=f477FnTe1M0
3.) Quantum computing in photosynthesis: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=when-it-comes-to-photosynthe...
4.) Entanglement in bird migration: http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2010-05/quantum-mechanics-may-help-bird...
5.) Quantum Entanglement Holds DNA Together, Say Physicists: http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/25375/
6.) Topological qubits in microtubules: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQngptkPYE8

Category:

Science & Technology

Tags:

• measurement problem
• quantum mind theory
• Wigner's friend
• Roger Penrose
• Henry Stapp
• Stuart Hameroff
• David Bohm
• Eugene Wigner
• self-collapse
• Orch-OR
• quantum observer
• consciousness
• quantum physics
• Karl H. Pribram
• microtubules
• quantum biology
• photosynthesis
• entanglement
• Zeno effect
• free-will
• substance dualism
• qualia
• eliminative materialism
• non-computability
• John Lucas
• Penrose-Lucas Theorem
• Kurt Gödel

[omgtkseth]

So, does the collapse of the wave function occur because a conscious mind is present? Or because the instrument of observing physically makes it collapse?

[JohananRaatz]

@omgtkseth Because either an instrument or a conscious mind are present, collapse is really just caused by interaction -with anything.

[JohananRaatz]

@OpenAirAtheist Free-will is evidence because our knowledge of it is innate.

If it wasn't, we couldn't know that we could trust our logical deductions (our idea of logic would just the result of an unconscious clockwork mechanism, which we could not trust for certain to give us the correct concept of logic).However since we know that we can trust logic, (denying this would be self-contradicting) we can also deduce that denying free-will is self-contradictory.

Thus we know we have it a priori.

[cameronmichaelkeys]

Orch OR's equation e = h/t suggests that Schrodinger's cat has conscious moments every, say, 600 milliseconds. If the cat is conscious and observing, then the cat is either dead, or alive, without any need to reference a scientist or scientist's assistant. The cat is not in a superposition prior to observation by scientists. It dies, or stays alive, at the very moment the vile either breaks or doesn't. Belief that the cat is in a superposition, both dead and alive, is myth. Cat's cause collapse.

[AlainG80]

@JohananRaatz

And how shoud the proposed QMIND communicate with the rest of the universe at speed c and still be omniscient?

[JohananRaatz]

@AlainG80 (cont.) There was also another name, I think Beauregard, who developed an updated version of Bohm's Holonomic q-mind theory -which I think is compatible with Orch-OR, who was going more into detail explaining how the implicate/explicate relations in Bohm's model could explain the data from neuroscience much better.

BTW I don't see how these videos make q-mind impossible just superluminal transmission of local information.

[JohananRaatz]

@AlainG80 Ok will watch, though just for reference Penrose and Hameroff came out with a new paper last year countering a lot of the criticisms that have been made of Orch-OR since it was produced -a lot of these had to do with the warm brain problem.

And I'll see if I can dig up some more papers for you. I think Zizzi has some also, and then there is Bandyopadhyay.

"Why Quantum Consciousness is bullocks"

The only other explanation is dualism, but that violates identity with interactionism.

[JohananRaatz]

@AlainG80 Ok will watch, though just for reference Penrose and Hameroff came out with a new paper last year countering a lot of the criticisms that have been made of Orch-OR since it was produced -a lot of these had to do with the warm brain problem.

[omgtkseth]

In other words, the proper analogy would be: to open the box where the cat is, we must shoot the box, and that is when the wave function collapse, because the act of observing the cat directly intervenes with the life of the cat. Because it is what happened with the electron: standing besides the electron wont make it collapse, only when you shoot at it with photons (like in the double slit experiment).

[omgtkseth]

@JohananRaatz I have a question, I hope you can explain to me. Does the collapse of the wave function occur when consciousness comes in contact? Or when the light of the detection instrument interferes with the electron? Is the first one considered the "Copenhagen" interpretation??

Is just that the analogy of the cat, when you open the door or the box (observe), the cat wont die. But when you shoot photons at an electron (observe) the photons can move the electron.

[AlainG80]

@JohananRaatz

youtu be/w8nbwQLtjcg

youtu be/ASZWediSfTU

Why Quantum Consciousness is bullocks.

[AlainG80]

@JohananRaatz

Do you have a link to the actual papers? Besides the one's by Stuart Hameroff? My Uni access expires in May, so I might want to read & download them before that date.