Voluntary Taxation - It Can Work!

Here are some ideas about funding the government in a capitalist legal framework.

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Category:

Education

Tags:

• mrcropper
• ayn
• rand
• objectivism
• voluntary
• taxation

[jacobins3000]

Umm, wouldn't that mean that the government would be dependent on evil altruism. What kind of person would voluntarily take money out of his own business to fund government programs? Not an objectivist, that's for certain.

[MrCropper]

@jacobins3000 "What kind of person would voluntarily take money out of his own business to fund government programs? Not an objectivist, that's for certain."

You obviously don't know much about Objectivism. Being a philosophy of selfishness, Objectivism holds self-defense to be moral. Paying for police, courts and military services would be selfish.

[Hypertask]

@Hypertask The reason why it would seem to violate Objectivist egoism if it was pure charity would be that rather than a normal business, which you pay to get a service provided to you, if you donated to the government you would be paying to get a service provided to everyone. This is why it would have to be linked to services, add to that contract enforcement service (Rand's idea) also protection under criminal law and then people would really have a personal interest to pay!

[Hypertask]

@MrCropper Except that once the system is up and running, anybody can stop donating and nothing noticeable will change for them. It's the free rider problem. Sure if everybody stopped paying then there would be a huge change. But unless the government linked the fees to service (Rand herself suggested the enforcement of contracts) no individual would notice a difference whether they were donating or not - it would be pure charity.

[sybo59]

@Fray2221 Cont. I can tell by the phrasing of your question that you aren't too familiar with Rand's philosophy. It's probably best not to jump right to the political/philosophy of law level without getting the metaphysics, epistemology, and especially ethics first. Agree of disagree with the ideas, it will be easier to grasp "Objectivism in practice" this way. If you have questions on those subjects, PM me and I'll answer or recommend further reading if I have the time.

[sybo59]

@Fray2221 Private security forces are an anarchist construct.

The gov't would be reduced to its vital role of protecting individual rights from the initiation of force with the military, police, and courts -- rich or poor. It is not a matter of altruism at all. Think of it like insurance: many people pay to keep the system alive in case they need it, but only a small percent will actually collect. Funding a proper, barebones gov't wouldn't be a problem.

[Fray2221]

@sybo59 Im simply having some trouble understanding the objectivist position on this issue.What happens in poor neighborhoods where people can't afford their own private security force? Are rich people going to altruistically pay for the security of poor people? or are they selfishly going to allow these neighborhoods to descend into anarchy? Why should a rich person in Beverly Hills pay to protect some bum in Compton? I understand how taxes work and I understand why they are necessary. Do you?

[sybo59]

@jacobins3000 "paying for the self-defense of millions..." Millions? More like your own share, value (your money) for value (the amount of protection you'd like available). I'm not even going into how having your whole neighborhood safe benefits you.

"likely be working in an different city" Yes, that's how taxes work. We take $X from jacobins, and give it specifically to Officer Jones in Compton.

"rely on the donations of others." You know little about Objectivism. Study more.

[jacobins3000]

@MrCropper Not really, because if you give money to the government then you will be paying for the self-defense of millions of your fellow citizens, as well as for yourself. Donating my personal income to the government will not substantially improve my own personal safety, it might only pay the salary of one additional cop, who will likely be working in an different city. Wouldn't the more selfish thing to do be to hire your own personal bodyguard, or to just to rely on the donations of others.

[TinoTaliTintti]

If taxes were voluntary that would be anarchy. And youve said that anarchy is stupid so youre stupid.