The Atheist Experience - 3/15/98 Part 1

Here's part 1 of the Atheist Experience tv show from 3/15/98.
Host: Ray Blevins
Co-Host: Joe Zamecki
Guest: John Koontz
Please check out: http://www.atheist-community.org
and: http://www.atheist-experience.org

Category:

Education

Tags:

• joe
• zamecki
• the
• atheist
• experience
• austin
• religion

[valthintaur]

It actually made me angry inside thinking of Christians harrassing a pregnant teenager...

[seathanaich]

Blood drives, etc are exactly what atheist groups need to support to ensure that humanist values, when endorsed by theists, get credited to humanism, where credit for it belongs. After all, every theist spends time every day using humanist principles; they need to be aware of this.

[debauchery73]

LOL! Thanks! I hope all is well with you young chap!

[debauchery73]

I agree ol chap!

[addmoreice]

doesn't have to be something before. we would like to think that because our brains demand a pattern but hey the universe IS. not necessarily in the way we think it should be (quantum mechanics and relativity alone where the shockers that showed that one) but it simply is.

[addmoreice]

heck I _LOVE_ this post. _if_ the first rule it...

this is a great statement. in one sentence you point out the flaw in there argument AND you point out the flaw even in there preamble to the argument.

we KNOW not everything has to have a cause. look up quantum mechanics with quantum fluctuation, cassimir effect, particle decay etc. all effects without causes. love it.

do theists REALLY not understand science this much aajoeyjo? i know some are confused but do they honestly not get it?

[addmoreice]

"an absolute revelation of God will directly disturb our free will"

well we thought that was what you meant when you typed it.

"Worship is a condition not an act."

and the act would be accepting (heck they come from the same ROOT!).

here is a hint, when you find yourself playing linguistic games like this, it's a sure sign that you have 'fuzzy' thinking in your ideas about a concept.

[Squawkerd]

Evidently you did not read the correction I posted. I meant to write evidence, somehow I typed belief. The sentence should have read "Why does evidence of God remove free will?" Basically, how would knowing about God remove my free will to follow him.

You actually made my argument for me

"Free will exists whether you have faith or not." Free will also exists whether you have knowledge or not. The first post was a mistake, not what I meant to write.

[vanda3138]

"Why does belief in God remove free will?"

I don't know where you got that one from I never said that at all.

"Just because I know he exists, I do not have to worship him"

Worship is a condition not an act. The condition of worship is gained through the acceptance of God into one's life. For me, the condition of worship is often an incredible sense of peace.

"In other words, free will only concerns faith?"

A red herring! Free will exists whether you have faith or not.

[Squawkerd]

I think you mistook my position, probably because I mistyped when I posted. I meant knowledge of God, not belief in God. Ie, why does knowing something remove free will. I am an atheist and I know the free will argument you propose, I am contemplating making a video on that subject. Specifically, if everything in the universe is natural, then each state is dependent on the last, meaning we can't change the course of events as nature dictates successive states.

[aajoeyjo]

Squawkerd - If there's an all-powerful God in charge of the universe, free will is impossible. It just means that we can't decide things if God knows the future and controls everything. Now if you're talking about a god that isn't all-powerful and doesn't know the future, and the future isn't set, then freewill is possible. Worship doesn't change any of that. But there are other arguments against even that much freewill...which I won't get into.

[Squawkerd]

Why does belief in God remove free will? Surely free will would be the choice to decide to worship or not, not to decide if a God exists. Just because I know he exists, I do not have to worship him. By that argument, is the only aspect in life that involves free will whether or not to believe in something without evidence? In other words, free will only concerns faith?