Finding God through Faith and Reason - How Can You Prove Gods Existence? Part 3

Fr. Spitzer surveys the types of evidence as A Priori, A Posteriori, as well as publicly and privately accessible, and distinguishes between evidence that has recourse to experience or sensation and that which does not. Using the argument that to "achieve the unachievable," as in saying past time is infinite, is a contradiction and therefore impossible, Fr. Spitzer concludes that there must be a "creation event" because time must be finite, and hence a creator must exist.

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• Faith
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• Reason
• Fr.
• Spitzer
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• atheism
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• catholic

[BeatMasterPhil]

@sunset261 Yes those could be 2 posed choices you list and actually, you are correct that we as human beings are not meant to stop having sex, but actually I would say that keeping sex in its proper place and order in the natural world would be a huge first step. If that is done in a large manner it seems that that could have a huge effect on the spread of AIDS. But now we would have to theorize on if we could even go in that direction with our sex drenched culture. Well, bed time for me.

[sunset261]

@BeatMasterPhil Well if you can invent a patch that reduces risk of AIDS then more power to you but as of right now, not having sex at all and having sex with a condom, are the best things that can be used to stunt the epidemic, and seeing as how having sex is a natural human desire, people aren't going to stop having sex so the best way to stunt the epidemic would be option number 2.

[BeatMasterPhil]

My last response got a little long and wanted to add a thank you for the discussion. It is always great to have a discussion with someone that is level-headed, which you don't find to many of them out here on the interwebs. This discussion definitely helps me to strengthen and diversify my knowledge and hopefully strengthen any convictions that are confirmed through it. Thanks :)

[BeatMasterPhil]

@sunset261 I guess it just seems to me that there is/should be a better way to help the AIDS epidemic than a physical thing like a condom. It seems like more of a patch that could hopefully help the epidemic instead of diving in deeper to the problem. But then again, I guess you could get to the issue of the ends not justifying the means with the condom. One birth control, there is natural birth control that is super effective, that can be used if you can't support a child at this time.

[sunset261]

@BeatMasterPhil Again though. no matter what, condoms reduce risk of AIDS by 80 percent and you're trying to tell me that that wouldn't greatly help the aids epidemic? Contraception is not immoral. Some people want to have sex without having children. Why shouldn't they?

[BeatMasterPhil]

@sunset261 Just on the surface, it doesn't seem that condoms are going to solve the life-threatening disease of AIDS. As you alluded to with the cheating spouse, there is something deeper that needs to be looked at. I completely agree with the teaching on contraception, I have come to this via both my own experiences and through the reasoning of the church for the teaching. When you read exactly why contraception is immoral it is completely reasonable and makes sense. Which is what I like.

[BeatMasterPhil]

@sunset261 You are starting to dig deeper now which is good. We start to see beyond the condom argument and see there is a disordering above this causing one to want to cheat and therefore use contraception (condom, etc.) Similar to having many of having many sexual partners. But I don't feel completely qualified yet to have a complete discussion on where some of the thoughts I would like to write could lead us. I don't want to shortchange myself or anyone. I got lots to learn :)

[sunset261]

@BeatMasterPhil The pope said condoms could only be justified in SOME cases such as male prostitutes. I can guarantee you that most people in Africa are not male prostitutes. He can't seem to admit that condoms can be morally justified period, for anybody because they greatly reduce the risk of AIDS, a life-threatening disease, by a substantial amount.

[sunset261]

@BeatMasterPhil He actually did say that condoms would only make the AIDS epidemic in africa worse. No matter how many sexual partners, Condoms reduces the chance of getting AIDS by around 80 percent. Contraception could make it easier to cheat but so what? If a person was going to cheat in the first place, then their heart is not really in the relationship and would only see the child as a ball and chain.