Wrath of God - John Piper

Sermon Jam on the 'Wrath of God' by John Piper.

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[SamWiseGingy]

@Lboogie501 No one can take away guilt from someone and call it justice.Someone may indeed pay the penalty of another but none can assume guilt. Justice punishes the guilty and frees the innocent. It is never justice to punish the innocent. So the substitutionary systems of guilt and punishment fail as justice. They also fail as mercy. Mercy forgives without punishment. Atonement by the blood of another is neither justice nor mercy.

[Lboogie501]

@SamWiseGingy I suppose it could be irrational when you look at it incompletely. But if you had a death sentence and someone loved you enough to take your place then it's not irrational, its a passionate love and commitment for you. You would be eternally grateful.

[SamWiseGingy]

@Lboogie501 So your god communicated with humanity with blood. Doesn't that sound irrational to you?

[Lboogie501]

@SamWiseGingy His son was promised long before he came. He provided blood of animals before this. They was needed even with near perfect living of the Jewish law. God is beyond perfect and can only dwell in perfection. We are covered with imperfection. We cannot be with God. He made a way. He painted a life long huge portrait of grace starting long before Christ.

[Lboogie501]

@SamWiseGingy Is it reasonable to go to prison for a crime committed? Or a death sentence? Yes.... Why? Do you believe in moral law? Is there evil that needs justice? If there is evil then there is good. Is that reasonable? Yes. If there is good then there is a higher source. There is a moral law from a higher source. Why cry when a loved one dies? There is something more then just the physical visible world. Why? Why do we die? Why is there pain and suffering? A bigger picture...

[SamWiseGingy]

@Lboogie501 Wow, You actually think that a blood sacrifice provides something people need. Why would any reasoning person think that? Okay let's assume there is a God. You are maintaining that this God had a plan and blessing for humanity but was withholding it until he son was sacrificed. That sounds reasonable to you?

[Lboogie501]

@SamWiseGingy He is only satisfied in one blood sacrifice. It was final and it was enough to cover the whole world. There is a price for sin. Your sin has a price. You either have it paid for you or you get to pay for it. Either way its paid for all eternity.

[youORyourMOTHER]

To all those who don't like to talk about hell, or God's wrath: The Bible teaches is it. God does as He pleases, and He can do whatever He wants because HE IS GOD (Ps. 115:3 ; Rom. 9).

To those who reject the wrath of God: The problem isn't with God. The problem is with YOU.  YOU are the one that attempts to fit God into your head and into your thinking. You can't do that. Your a mere human trying to grasp something of infinite value. God's ways are higher than ours. (Isaiah 55:9)

[SamWiseGingy]

@Lboogie501 So your god wants me to perceive him as a god who is satisfied with a human blood sacrifice.

[Lboogie501]

@SamWiseGingy

He send Jesus that we might know Him.