Part 23 of 32 Senate Judiciary Committee with Alberto Gonzales. Senator Ted Kennedy's questions to Alberto Gonzales. 7/24/07
KEEP IN MIND: Gonzales was given each and every question he would be asked beforehand. Nothing was a surprise - there was absolutely NO "GOTCHA!"
Transcript of this portion of the hearing:
KENNEDY: Thank you. Thank very much, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
Welcome, General.
Just to come back for a moment or two on the issue of torture, as you are aware the executive order has been published. It was published on July 20th, 2007.
Did the department review the executive order...
GONZALES: Yes.
KENNEDY: ... (inaudible) put out?
GONZALES: As a matter of custom we would do that, yes.
KENNEDY: OK.
And did you produce any memoranda or any other documents assessing the legality of the order?
GONZALES: Senator, I don't know.
We certainly provided advice, yes, about the order. I can't tell you whether or not we provided a legal document...
(CROSSTALK)
KENNEDY: Can you make those available to the committee? Can you make those available about the department's analysis of...
GONZALES: I will take that back and see what we can do, Senator.
KENNEDY: In the particular document, at paragraph E, it mentions certain activities by definition that violate human decency. It specifies those.
It says in paragraph E, "outrageous acts of personal abuse, done for the purpose of humiliating or degrading the individual in a manner so serious that any reasonable person, considering the circumstances, would deem the acts to be beyond the bounds of human decency."
Then it specifically prohibits certain activities. Certain activities are prohibited in the executive order.
KENNEDY: It says, "such as sexual or sexual indecent acts undertaken for the purposes of humiliation." Those are prohibited. It says, "forcing the individual to perform sexual acts or to pose sexually." Those are prohibited. "Threatening the individual or sexual mutilation, or using the individual as a human shield," those are prohibited. "Acts intended to denigrate the religion, religious practices or religious option," they are prohibited.
So the question is, why aren't you willing -- if those are prohibited, why aren't you willing to prohibit the other kinds of activities that were outlined earlier in terms of the waterboarding, in terms of stress, dogs, nudity, mock executions?
GONZALES: Senator...
KENNEDY: If you prohibit these activities, why don't you prohibit those?
GONZALES: Senator, there are certain activities that are clearly beyond the pale and that everyone would agree should be prohibited. And so, obviously, the president is very, very supportive of those actions that are identified by its terms in the executive order.
There are certain other activities where it is not so clear, Senator. And, again, it's for those reasons that I can't discuss them in the public...
KENNEDY: Well, the only point -- and it's been made superbly by my colleague, Senator Durbin -- what you're basically saying to this committee and the rest of the world that these acts which are mentioned in the executive are prohibited, but these other activities -- the five other activities which have been the subject of a good deal of our own hearings and we talked about your confirmation problems -- are not. They don't rise to the point where they are prohibited.
GONZALES: I'm not saying that they're not. What I'm saying is...
KENNEDY: But they weren't of sufficient importance to list them as you did list these activities.
GONZALES: I wouldn't say it's importance. But clearly, these activities are ones that are clearly beyond the pale, and everyone agrees the United States government should not be engaged in.
With respect to whether or not other activities should be prohibited, that'll be determined based upon the parameters set forth in the executive order and for the director of the CIA to make sure that certain standards are met before authorizing any activity that -- to ensure that it complies with the requirements of the order.
KENNEDY: This past Sunday, Admiral McConnell was on "Meet the Press," and he was asked about some of these activities. He indicated that he was not going to comment specifically on them.
Is it lawful to leave the threat of torturing hanging out there?
GONZALES: No.
KENNEDY: Is the threat of torture violation of the Geneva?
GONZALES: Well, of course, the president said we're not going to torture. We're bound by both the international law -- we don't engage in torture.
So I'm not sure -- I don't think we've left the threat out there. We have said we're not going to engage in torture.
KENNEDY: OK.
Well, the point that -- the point that has been mentioned here about these five items which the -- Admiral McConnell indicated in response to a question that he wasn't going to comment on, the question is is whether that's extreme psychological harm; whether the threat, the fact that you won't indicate that those are off the table poses a violation of the Geneva Convention.
Let me go to another issue.
This morning a newspaper had this story on the front page: "The Diplomats Received Political Briefings -- Diplomats Received Political Briefings." They were done, evidently, at the Peace Corps -- the Peace Corps.
Now, we've already had some 15 federal agencies and departments were subject to briefing by Karl Rove's political office at the White House. These briefings focused on the key electoral contests.
There's an additional story and pictures inside the newspaper.
And according to The Post today, even diplomats and the Peace Corps have been given briefings that went so far as to identify Democrats targeted for defeat in 2008.
Has Karl Rove or anyone from his office given similar briefings to the leadership in the Department of Justice?
GONZALES: Not that I'm aware of.
KENNEDY: Well, you would know if he had.
GONZALES: I would think so. But I don't believe so, sir.
KENNEDY: And is it your legal opinion that these briefings given in the Peace Corps which target the Democrats for defeat, is that consistent with the Hatch Act? Is that a violation of the Hatch Act?
GONZALES: I don't know. I haven't studied this article and I'm not aware of what happened in the briefings. I certainly wouldn't rely upon the article in making...
KENNEDY: Well, it raises serious questions, does it not?
GONZALES: ... reaching a conclusion as to whether or not...
KENNEDY: You're going to look into it?
GONZALES: We'll look to see whether or not there's something there.
KENNEDY: Whether it's a violation, whether they in these briefings were targeting on government property to these officials in the Peace Corps -- going in the Peace Corps that they should be -- Democrats should be defeated in the next election.
GONZALES: Let me try to get more information about this.
(CROSSTALK)
KENNEDY: Well, if this story is true, would it appear to you -- then would it be a violation?
GONZALES: Again, Senator, I would like to have the opportunity to find out what happened.
KENNEDY: Let me go quickly in the last seconds to the Civil Rights Division in the Justice Department.
We had the -- Wan Kim, who was here, asked about the number of voting discrimination against African-American based on race. The Bush administration has filed only two voting rights cases on race discrimination against -- and it took until 2006 to file these.
They found time to clear Tom DeLay's Texas redistricting and the Georgia photo ID; just two cases on this.
(CROSSTALK)
KENNEDY: ... voting rights against African-Americans, two cases; dramatically less than the previous administration.
Do you think that this really reflects what's happening out there in terms of voter discrimination against African-Americans?
GONZALES: No, I still believe we have a problem and we have an obligation to try to address it.
I read with great interest the testimony -- I think it was Dr. Norton -- and the panel that followed Mr. Kim's testimony, in terms of the allegation that the numbers across the board are down. And I questioned Mr. Kim about that, and we talked about the numbers and the cases.
And so I think the person that testified was either mistaken or just -- I mean, just plain wrong.
And so we have provided a lot of information to this committee about the successes of the Civil Rights Division. And I can tell you, sir, I am firmly committed to protecting the civil rights of all Americans.
KENNEDY: My time is up, Mr. Chairman. I'd like to just provide information to the -- at this point in the (inaudible).
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Senate Judiciary Committee w/Alberto Gonzales-7/24/07 Pt24by cspander2,540 views
It says, "forcing the individual to perform sexual acts or to pose sexually." Those are prohibited. " after.
TheMethadoneParty 4 years ago