Flowering of Consciousness in our Culture?

exploring shtuff

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People & Blogs

Tags:

• integral
• consciousness
• awakening

[phcou]

THATS THe nihilist part. having no "final truth" because all speech is "in flux" "becoming" you condemn yourself to silence.

[thepathlesspath]

All speech is in flux, but the unique part of this idea is that THAT is okay too. That whatever it is you are doing, or thinking, limiting yourself or not, the Truth or Whole or "Totality" is beyond words and IS words. Not condemned to silence but free to speak or not to speak. THAT is the true integration that Wilber has not expressed, and thus becoming an endless rambling :-/

[1PostPoMoMaN1]

Polemic nihilism isn't my forte. :)

[1PostPoMoMaN1]

Despite my apparent support of Wilber's ideas, I agree with thepathlesspath that Wilber's system is trying to use too much of a kind of rational absolutism.

[1PostPoMoMaN1]

An integral theory is not just historical. Just because the stages have occurred in history as they have, doesn't make the stages different, just the surface features are different. I find thepathlesspath's views on all this pretty good.

[1PostPoMoMaN1]

I don't assign primacy to Ken Wilber's thinking. I'm more in agreement with Gebser of language and representation being not final. Knowing itself is higher than the clever uses of the alphabet, knowing is also 'higher' than mathematics.

[thepathlesspath]

And to end real quick for the night... Appropriately Gebser described Nihilism/Paradoxes and "existentialism" are all symptoms of man in transition, faced with a terrible dilemma, yet with an immanent shift in his consciousness. IMO having read Wilber's works, he has not even come upon this fundamental idea, but "skipped it" to create a method of everything.

Good night!

[phcou]

Well thats positive :-) Initially i only wanted to point out the danger of integrating the stages of consciousness POLITICALLY, which is what i think John and Matt are doing...and it is healthy that you aren't as problemtic as these two in seeing the limits of wilberian spirituality. Would love to talk more, perhaps at later date...have to go and start dinner now :( Late here in Australia. Thanks for discussion!

[thepathlesspath]

Thank you for this, you have helped me understand Gebser's insight and I hope to make a video about this soon.

[thepathlesspath]

Even with such a realization, as a Zen koan might express, the birds still sing and people still chatter. I think this discussion has helped me understand Gebser's point about integral in that it is totally liberating and integrating, allowing for both sound and silence as part a Whole, or non-dual. Form and no form. A direct perceiving of this that our rational thinking only becomes twisted up in paradoxes.

[phcou]

So...if each speech is contradicted by its opposite (higher stage of consciouss, state of consciousness) which has no less a claim to truth (this stage of consciousness will give way to a higher stage of consciousness) and so, the totality of ones discourse is in way no different from silience. If we are continually "becoming" and there is no "final" say on truth, then we cannot really assert anything, can we?