Finding God through Faith and Reason - St. Thomas Aquinas' Proof of an Uncaused Cause Part 1

In the history of life in the universe, Fr. Spitzer distinguishes between two forms of beings: the Caused Causes, which rely on something else in order to exist; and the Uncaused Cause, or that which needs nothing other than itself to exist. Going back into the past and positing an infinite number of caused causes gets us nowhere in determining ultimate causality.

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[ndzoko]

@jorgecarrillo2 God is spirit, he is not subjected to dimensional universe as we are. So he can exist out of Space-time>. Bulls...

2 + 2 makes 5. ergo 4 + 4 makes 10. When you start with a false or unproven statement you can come to any conclusion..

[jorgecarrillo2]

@BeatMasterPhil Correct, The Universe, Mass+energy+space+time exists only from a singular point. But What brought such point to existance?, Why it existed in stead of not to exist at all?, what was cheaper the existence or not to exist?

However things exists, though in the beggining there was nothing nor time, no energy, no light no space, only mater, . Superheated, by who?, by what?.

God is spirit, he is not subjected to dimensional universe as we are. So he can exist out of Space-time.

[BeatMasterPhil]

@jorgecarrillo2 My beliefs are completely compatible with the Big Bang theory. (From my knowledge I do not believe that a static and unchangeable universe is the main supported scientific thought about the universe at this time.) The item that you commented on is merely showing that the Big Bang theory, reason, and logic point toward a necessary beginning to all of space-time, meaning that there would need to be something outside of space-time to bring space/time itself into existence.

[jorgecarrillo2]

@BeatMasterPhil is your theory of static univers, unchangeable, un created, unmutable, conciliar with the Big Bang theory?

[MrSandykramer]

@BeatMasterPhil

That which exists outside of time, space and matter has no cause within time, space or matter, but is not precluded from existence outside those dimensions.

[BeatMasterPhil]

I have actually always been surprised that there are still people out there that turn down logic and reason in showing that there must be an uncaused cause; something that exists out of its own necessity which nothing else causes. Once you show through reason and logic that infinite regress is impossible in a reasonable universe, you show that there cannot be an infinite amount of things and a beginning-less universe is also an impossibility.

[GodKillerAtheist]

let me downthumb this piece of garbage

[garenth1988]

well no negative infinity plus one is not equal to negative infinity. Most of what we deal with in terms of incorporating infinity involves addition or estimation which in that case the infinity will "overpower the negative one" thus leaving you with properties from negative infinity and negative infinity plus one. but when examining the individual numbers negative infinity and negative infinity plus one. And that question is essentially the same as what happened to the universe

[Mkvine]

But doesn't negative infinity plus one still equal negative infinity? I just want to know, if we "start" from negative infinity, how can we arrive at integer one? "What happened before the universe," ah yes, this is the great question that humans have always pondered on...

[garenth1988]

And yet on the other hand even if you do confide our universe to our perceptions that does not have the support from the mathematics of it only the personal perception, then you are going to have to beg the question of what happened before the universe. What existed prior? Now, we do see a beginning of the "universe" that incorporates the laws of physics but science does not label that as the absolute beginning but rather the beginning of the universe as we have observed it.