Peak Oil Debate - PWNing the Center for Industrial Progress on Energy

PWNing Alex Epstein of the Center for Industrial Progress after his shameful appearance at NYC's Occupy Wall Street protest.

Category:

News & Politics

Tags:

• Peak Oil Debate
• peak oil
• energy debate
• oil price
• center for industrial progress
• alex epstein
• occupywallstreet
• ows debate
• occupy wall street
• nuclear power

[Arjozof]

Oil production in US fell because it became unprofitable for US companies to produce oil because of government intervention. It became profitable to import oil instead.

Secondly, there are vast amounts of oil deposits, which are currently unprofitable to exploit, but will become profitable when world prices hit high mark. Shale oil, deep ocean deposits etc. are all in the reach in 21st century.

[fuckedspecies]

@Arjozof Despite what you say about government intervention, oil exploration and drilling *increased* in the United States in the 1970s and 80s, it didn't decrease. At the same time, domestic oil production declined. The decline was caused by the depletion in mature domestic oil fields exceeding new capacity in new oil fields.

Your second argument has been made since oil was $10/barrel. Deep sea oil and oil from shale will help, but if you work the numbers it's clear it's not enough.

[Arjozof]

@fuckedspecies I can't see how "it's clear it's not enough", when future is uncertain regarding technological break-throughs and energy-saving solutions which arise due to market demand. Market forces and entrepreneurship often find workable solutions, which noone was able to imagine, let alone verbalize before.

Ultimately, when oil starts to run out, its price will skyrocket (if government doesn't intervene!) and economic incentives will force people to seek out other sources

[fuckedspecies]

@Arjozof Just as it's clear we won't colonize Pluto next year even though some future breakthrough may make it more likely, it's clear that we won't avoid demand destruction for oil even with energy saving devices and even with alternative energies and even with unconventional oil.

The picture you present is not inaccurate, it's incomplete: As the price of oil rises, ppl. do seek alternatives. The problem is that the alternatives aren't as good so you can't avoid demand destruction.

[Arjozof]

@fuckedspecies "demand destruction"? a strange choice of words. Market competition kicks in every time there is an opportunity for profit, and as long as governments stay back (there won't be any governments anyway when this happens), human greed is going to deliver a fuel good enough to be cost-effective on par with oil.

[fuckedspecies]

@Arjozof As supply decreases and demand increases prices rise. If this happens w/o a concomitant increase in income, consumption decreases. This phenomenon is known as demand destruction. Higher prices do also produce increased market pressure to find new solutions, but these market pressures are constrained by the laws of physics. Just because people *want* to find solutions to our energy problem doesn't mean people *can* find solutions. It may be that we'll just have to consume less.

[Arjozof]

@fuckedspecies that's obvious, but as long as there exist a single drop of petroleum in the bowels of the Earth, theoretically it may be extracted with proper technology, which becomes profitable, when prices skyrocket. But most importantly, market calculates future depletion of currently exploited resources and prices begin to rise earlier,which boosts prospection for new deposits and innovation in mining and drilling technology.Mass decr. in cons.of oil is still a long time away

[qtutoringhelps]

@fuckedspecies

Yah, I wasn't looking for advice or your opinions on how to evaluate things.

[fuckedspecies]

@qtutoringhelps Judge the video (and everything else in life) on the merits. If you find it persuasive, that's wonderful, and if not, well that's no sweat.

[fuckedspecies]

@SuperFinGuy Going to the moon is now easier (indeed it is now possible) due to improvements in technology. That doesn't make it easy, and doesn't mean it always goes according to plan. Likewise, deep water drilling is now easier (indeed it is now possible) due to improvements in technology. That doesn't make deep water drilling easy, and doesn't mean it always goes according to plan. I should think this is obvious.