John Piper on Doug Wilson

John Piper discussing Doug Wilson

Category:

Education

Tags:

• John
• Piper
• Doug
• Wilson
• FV
• Federal
• Vision

[shine777]

@cheesypasta The Resurgence Text and Context back a few years ago... brilliant stuff... you need to get the whole message...

[ThusFar777]

Surrounded by dumb people?

Try this on for size. "Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell" (Mt 5:22).

[cheesypasta]

can someone tell me what conference this is?

[b22505]

@foucachon (Cont.) Baptismal regeneration is not Biblical. The benefits of salvation are attributed SOLELY to the elect members of the invisible church, not to the non-elect members of the visible church. This is only one of the areas in which FV is confused and in error.

[b22505]

@foucachon (Cont.) One issue is the confusion about the benefits of the covenant of grace. FV says that anyone baptized into the visible church receives all the saving benefits of the covenant of grace, forgiveness of sins, the imputation of Christ’s righteousness, effectual calling, regeneration, faith, justification, adoption, sanctification, including an everlasting inheritance in the kingdom of Heaven even if they are not elect. I consider this to be baptismal regeneration.

[b22505]

@foucachon Rich Lusk was a member of Redeemer Presbyterian Church in Austin Texas when I lived there and attended that church. Peter Leithart was a teaching elder in Robert Raburn's church in Tacoma, and I have attended there although I don't recall meeting Mr. Leithart.

This is a poor forum for discussing this because of the limited number of characters allowed for a note, and there are a lot of issues which should be addressed. Many of them have been addressed elsewhere.

[foucachon]

@b22505 As a proponent of the FV, I disagree pretty much completely with "The New Perspective on Paul."

One thing about the FV is that it is a common "vision" for certain things. For example, I've never even read a book by Rich Lusk (but I "hear things"). Doug Wilson (and to a lesser extent Peter Leithart) are the one's I have heard/read. Would you say these men, particularly Doug Wilson, the writer of the Joint FV statement, are in error? If so, in what way?

[b22505]

@foucachon I too was in the PCA, but resigned because of the infusion of Federal Vision teaching. I have studied FV fairly extensively, listening to and reading the positions and commentary from the leading proponents of FV. I grieve because of the error that is being taught. The error extends from sacerdotalism to the doctrine of Union with Christ.

There is overlap between NT Wright's most unfortunate new perspective on Paul, but there are significant differences too.

[foucachon]

@b22505 This is a wrong understanding of the FV. They do certainly teach justification by faith alone. I grew up in the PCA, am the son of a PCA minister, and have now sat under Pastor Wilson's teaching for 5 years. I understand the doctrines of grace, and that is precisely what Doug Wilson teaches. There has been MUCH slander spread on blogs, which the PCA unfortunately listened to a little bit. When it comes to trials, every FV minister has been acquitted, most recently, Peter Leithart.

[b22505]

The Auburn Avenue Presbyterian Church (AAPC) was found to be promoting Federal Vision. It was about to be kicked out of the Presbyterian Church in America (PCA) when it resigned and joined Doug Wilson's following.

Douglas Wilson, Steve Schlissel, John Barach, and J. Steven Wilkins, the pastor of AAPC, do not teach justification by faith ALONE, nor do they teach that justification is an event; they hold that it is a process.

I am very disturbed by Piper's simplistic analysis of their position.