Apolotwist James White says Unbelief is Faith - Debate (Alpha and Omega Ministries, Dividing Line)

http://tinyurl.com/ImputedR

http://Godnoliar.com/the_prophet_david.htm

James White says Unbelief is Faith (Alpha and Omega Ministries)


Ever wondered what faith is? It's unbelief - according to James White of Alpha and Omega ministries.

James White says...

James White says...
"Sometimes as an apologist, I wish the Bible was more systematic, cut-and-dry. It'd be a little bit easier to defend. I mean the enemies of the faith are always picking on this little thing over there and that little thing over there. And when you actually go look at it there's actually no substance to the criticism but part of your job is pointing that out. And one of the things a lot of people like to attack is - you look at the Psalter and in the Psalter you have the entire range of human emotion expressed. Muslims, for example, see that as a primary reason why it can't possibly be the Word of God. But you have the heights of joy and praise and rejoicing. And you have the depths of despair. And, in fact, a couple of times - not always - but a couple of times, the Psalmist doesn't even get a response from God. As he wrote those words - as he experienced that difficulty, there was no answer from God as yet. And those are the difficult ones - they don't get preached on very often - but I'm often glad they're there. Because God deals with us in the real world. And the idea of patient endurance. The idea of a faith [unbelief???] that lasts and that endures through tribulation and even those silent times. The older I get the more I realize - that's the kind of faith God wants to form within me."

This quote is taken from a Youtube video entitled, "Encouragement, Endurance, Patience (Part 1)". Quote starts 4 minutes 10 seconds into the video which is found here... youtube.com/watch?v=Pgcu1hOJRmg



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WHAT IS REPENTANCE UNTO LIFE?
http://Godnoliar.com/repentance.htm
There is much confusion about what constitutes "repentance unto life". Most people make it into a work necessary for salvation. I don't. So I'm interested to know what you think about a brief article I wrote on the Presbyterian view. I think Presbyterians (like almost every other sect) make repentance into a work, and therefore believe salvation by works. The truth is that, in the context of justification, repentance is merely a change of mind.

Presbyterians and Reformed people understand repentance unto life to mean, a hating of sin, sorrowing for sin, endeavouring to do better, and turning from all sins unto God (Q87 WSC). Without this sorrowing, their Confession says, no one can expect pardon of sin (WCF, 15:2, 15:3). And when does this work of sorrowing occur, according to the WCF? BEFORE (or at) justification. "By it, a sinner, out of the sight and sense not only of the danger, but also of the filthiness and odiousness of his sins, and upon the APPREHENSION of His mercy in Christ to such as are penitent, so grieves for, and hates his sins, as to turn from them all unto God..." (WCF 15:2).

The WCF uses the word "apprehension". To "apprehend" something is to "grasp" or "perceive" something. What the WCF is saying, is that sinners must perform the work of sorrowing, simultaneous (or prior to) justification. Apprehension of Christ occurs at justification. Therefore, if the sinner must sorrow for sin when apprehending Christ, then he must do a work (of sorrowing) at justification!
Thus, your confession teaches that men must do the good work of sorrowing in order to be justified. And your catechism teaches that sinners must "endeavour to do better" in order to be justified. Well, I have some questions for you.

Firstly, what does God mean when He says, I was found by those not seeking Me; I became known to those not inquiring after Me, Rom 10:20. Doesn't He mean, that He justifies men without them seeking Him at all?

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[no1djkamilo]

Are you AndrewBain?

[coreva]

Strawman.

[franki2424]

do the words; ever learning but never coming to knolwedge of the truth strike a familiar note to ya.

[crossoldman]

@DarkQuietWyattON Huh? Parameters for morality? What does that mean and how did I restrict anyones right to speak their mind on the subject? Again, I'm not inclined to continue here with 500 character limits. It's too much work. I suggest we move the discussion to e-mails or videos. I'm very happy to explain to you why and how freedom of speech and bigotry are moral issues if you don't understand it. I'll also be glad to explain the difference between hate speech and expressing strong opinions.

[DarkQuietWyattON]

@crossoldman Ok.. I understand. Thanks for taking the time and for being polite. Have a great day

[DarkQuietWyattON]

@crossoldman but a problem with a the person in the system not abiding by the agreed upon morals. "I will steal from you because I want to and I don't care". Prison is full of these people. Atheists and theists alike. That is not an issue of the system being bad but of the individual being unable to live by societies guidelines and "morals".

Our society functions...so in many ways atheists and theists share the same set of morals...or am I mistake about that??

[DarkQuietWyattON]

@crossoldman on such a case as you mentioned and wouold probably throw out the case if the girls says it was consensual. However, in other countries, the woman does have have to consent to her husband and in some cultures (many the same as just noted), the raped woman would then be executed for sex outside of marriage. I find THAT immoral as most people in the west would because we have shared morals in many cases. In many cases where the system breaks down, it is not a probelm with the sytem...

[DarkQuietWyattON]

@crossoldman That is true and you make a good point but for a society to function, there has to be some sort of hard rules by which we live and can function. However, giving the person the ability to decide their own morality, had Warren Jeffs sleeping with girls of almost any age and most of us would agree, at least in Western Culture, that sleeping with a 7 year old girl should land you in prison and have you registered as a sex offender. In many states the judge has the ability to rule...

[crossoldman]

@DarkQuietWyattON cont3... but 2 hours later you can hump all you want and no one can say anything. That's the stupidity of "Objective" morals and the injustice they can cause. I'm sorry but I really can't condense this huge subject into 500 character bytes. I'd be more than happy to discuss it with you in -mails or on video. Last summer/fall I had a very enjoyable and polite set of exchanges with Dr. Del Taggert from Focus on The Family. I do believe I opened his eyes a little on the subject.

[DarkQuietWyattON]

@crossoldman Cont...when it came to children. It is neither a theist or an atheist problem. It is a problem of specific people who do not abide by the morality that the society has agreed upon.

I am tired and may be babbling so if I am...just ignore me LOL