God does not believe in Hell - p1

Hell is the invention of men.

I am making this video in part because many people, both christians and muslims have tried to convince me that unbelievers will go to hell and I believe this cannot possibly be the case. Ive become tired of repeating the argument so I am making a video I can refer people to in future.

I also hope that this video might give some comfort to kids such as those seen being mentally tortured on Jesus Camp. If I can help one such kid see that they dont have to live their lives in fear of eternal torture then it will have been worth it.

Im going to start with the bible. The bible teaches us that god is jealous.

The problem with this is that it just does not make sense for a god (any god) to be jealous of anything other than another god. Therefore a monotheistic god can not possibly be jealous.

A jealous priest on the other hand makes perfect sense. Its easy to see how a jealous priest could have invented hell. Like this for example:

Hey! I saw you guys worshiping Aarons golden calf! What about the lord your god who brought you out of Egypt?

Ummmm! Sorry Moses, but its like this, weve been wandering in the wilderness for 40 years since you lost the sat nav and Aaron says the golden calf has shown him that the promised land is just a week or so light walking to the north,

Oh, so its like that is it! Well my god told me that he is going to do horrible things to you, your children, your grand-children, and your great grand-children unless you stop worshiping that calf and start attending at the temple again!

Next day.

The temple was empty again last night! After what I told you why didnt you show up?

Well Moses, we told Aaron what you said and he told us that the calf would be so upset with us if we switched back that not only would it be years before we found the promised land but that iniquities would be visited upon us and all our descendants for centuries to come.

Fine! Worship the calf! But youll be sorry! My god will will will torture you forever!

Im not saying thats how it happened; just that it makes sense that it must have happened something like that.

The man who first invented hell probably did not even think he was lying. Even if he did he probably rationalised it as being for the greater good of his followers.

Once it had been invented, hell was kind of the hydrogen bomb of priestly threats. There is nowhere to escalate to from there, so once someone had invented it pretty much every high priest of every religion which worked on a threat/reward system of conversion would have needed hell in its armoury in order to compete.

Im not claiming any of this as a scientific argument against hell, but lets compare the jealous god hypothesis with the jealous priest hypothesis using Occams razor.

The jealous god hypothesis requires at least 3 assumptions. 1. That god exists, 2. That he is capable of creating hell, 3 that he wants to torture at least some people for eternity.

I think I am being kind here because I have left out assumptions about which god is the correct one and I have left open the question of why he would want to torture people.

I would argue that the jealous priest hypothesis does not require any untestable assumptions at all. We know priests exist, we know they are human; we know that humans have the necessary failings to invent hell. You might argue that I am assuming that at least some priests had these failings in the past, but I think there are enough examples of bad priestly behaviour history to show that this is not a necessary assumption.

Category:

News & Politics

Tags:

• god
• hell
• allah
• christians
• muslims
• unbelievers
• Jesus
• camp
• bible
• qur'an
• kuran
• Aaron
• Moses
• Occams
• razor

[medusa210562]

I am a seventh day adventist we don't believe in eternal demnation.

[kandtell]

@medusa210562 that's good :)

[helasmoh]

@kandtell

I'm not talking about the first cause argument, I already sent you a link of my video between Dawkins and Weinberg, I think this is all I can say to you, I'm a follower of God's prophets and science at the same time, as God told us in Quran 52:15 "Is this magic, or do you not see?" unfortunately, you are heading to no magic but to a scientific destiny which you will be in for eternity, God Has told you and I delivered the message, I still wish you all the best dear brother.

[kandtell]

@helasmoh

I suggest you look into "top down cosmology" the idea that our own universe is actually a "multiverse" with an un-imaginably vast number of possible paths from the Big Bang forward in time. Since we know what the state of the universe is today only a finite number of those paths can sum up to give us existence.

In this hypotheses and many others there is no need for a designer.

[kandtell]

@helasmoh

OK, so I watched your video (BTW, any chance of you not hard cutting to incantations? It's very off-putting).

Your talking about fine tuning.

No that does not work either.

1. It's difficult to conclusively prove that the universe is fine tuned since we can't change the constants and re-run time to see for sure (is life really not possible in a universe without stars? How can we be sure?).

2. Many multiverse hypotheses now exist and have followers amongst cosmologists.

cont...

[kandtell]

@helasmoh "Top physicists proved this universe was Designed"

I absolutely disagree with that statement.

I studied Physics at university.

I follow modern science.

I subscribe to Nature.

I read books by modern cosmologists.

There *is no proof that the universe was designed*!!!!!!!!!!

If your thinking of the "First cause" argument then I suggest you watch my video watch?v=vu3hiIPlwhk

[helasmoh]

@kandtell

You are following your own "god" which is yourself. Top physicists proved this universe was Designed, please watch my video on that: Atheists Blind Faith - Richard Dawkins and Steven Weinberg - God or the multiverse?: /watch?v=oO0QRUX4HGE

There is no answer other than God and anything else is a huge stretch more than my video, way way more, you have to prove that there are universes more than the atoms in our universe but as I told you, you want to play god yourself.

[kandtell]

@helasmoh

And finally, even if the Quran was clear and said literally "god guided the light that made the matter that made the nuclei in stars which exploded eons ago which aggregated to form the earth, and some of which through {insert correct abiogenesis process here} formed life and went on through Natural Selection to produce man".

I still would not see how you get from that to god deciding which of us to select for the next universe based on how many gods we believe in.

[kandtell]

@helasmoh

But "we" are not the nuclei. And we are definitely not the light that turned into the matter that turned into those nuclei.

Even if we were there is no evidence that any intelligence played any part in that process.

And even if there were, a few stretched interpretations of the Quran would not convince me that there was any prediction there.

cont...

[kandtell]

@helasmoh sorry, but that video really is a huge stretch!

I knew all the Physics in it anyway and I can't even agree with the presenters claim that we are light. Any nuclei in our bodies heavier than Lithium was almost certainly produced in a star, in that sense Carl Sagan's romantic "we are all made of stardust" quote is acceptable because most of the nuclei are still the same.

cont...