BBC: Cosmology's Biggest Sceptic - Most of Our Universe is Missing

Does Dark Matter theory really help scientists discover more about space? Meet one of the world's biggest sceptics and hear his views on why he thinks dark matter doesn't exist. Great clip from BBC show 'Most of Our Universe is Missing'.

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[Dachmir]

its funny u all say the standard model is mathematical elegance... the reason that dark matter, dark energy etc exist is because of mathematical failure with the observations in deep space. instead of proving the theory wrong cosmologist ad new mechanics to explain the observations couse they believe blindy in the theory. thats what makes it close to religion

[metafa84]

Cosmology is close to religion? It is the same as if you say art is close to religion. Some artists draw pictures with religious contents - that does not say anything about art.

Modern cosmology makes in most cases perfect mathematical sense. If you do not believe that nature is depending on the rules of mathematics then you can abandon all of physics. And think of the story of the atom: We were able to proof the existance of atoms a long time before we could actually see them.

[dave474c]

Maybe he's just trying to keep us from the dark side

[Piitsi]

While mathematics is the most precise way to describe nature. Still it is not the nature itself. It's elementary logic not to confuse the map with the terrain. The root of science is in the empirical evidence and mathematics. What some people seem to forget is that you have to have both

Mathematically this is not the only possible universe, and when you want to find out how this universe works, you need to look whats there empirically. Empiricism and mathematics need each other. Appreciate both

[metafa84]

@Skandalos That's the beauty of it. Mathematics did not need to be invented in this universe. Yeah we invented the name "mathematics" and thought of names for numbers and operations. and yeah the language of nature is physics and the language of physics is mathematics.. we can describe the processes in nature so exact.. is it this precision which frightens you? This is undeniable.. there is only mathematics and no romance, no god involved in this. Too bad man....

[Skandalos]

@metafa84 "Humans did not invent mathematics"? LOL? Who invented it then? Your guinea pig perhaps?

Me religious? You are the one who tries to put mathematics into a god-like role. 

[metafa84]

@Skandalos Also if you are using polarising words, your comment is ridiculous (and creepy). Humans did not invent mathematics, this would mean that the first reasonable event with a cause and an effect happened when the first human began to think of words for 1 finger, 2 fingers, 3 fingers, ... . Math cannot be just invented by someone. Everything is based on it since the beginning of time, clearly in our universe. Are you one of these braindead religious people or what do you want to show here?

[Skandalos]

@metafa84 "nature is depending on the rules of mathematics"? hello? We, humans, we have developed mathematics. It serves as an interface between infinitely complex nature and our limited brains. Math is not nature, its not the language of nature, nature doesnt depend on math.

You sound like the rapist who goes like "the bitch wanted it". You project your human limitedness at nature. You got a hammer, so everything in nature gotta be a nail. How stupid can you get?

[metafa84]

@Skandalos Well to quote myself: "If you do not believe that nature is depending on the rules of mathematics then you can abandon all of physics". And if you do that: tough luck xD

[Skandalos]

@metafa84 Math is "the language of nature"? Again something that doesnt make any sense.

[metafa84]

@Skandalos Well, there are numerous cases (and with numerous I mean thousands) where mathematical sense means nothing less than the unability to prove the opposite (and that's quite frankly the highest grade a theory can reach in science. I.e. relativity). The language of nature IS mathematics. And although as you say "mathematics is only a toolbox" and we can never go the edge of the universe, mathematical sense to me is a clear indicator that reality cannot be very far away from this.

[Skandalos]

@metafa84 It makes "mathematical sense"? So what? And what would that mean anyway, to make "mathematical sense"? Mathematic is a toolbox, a model collection, nothing more. Math can model reality as well as it can model phantasy.