Rationality

Is rationality and logic important? Is it necessary? If God exists, is it his devine gift to us or is it a trap of the devil? Either way you slice it, holding to either of these as a theist really makes no sense.

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[rusty2029]

Rationality is a lovely mathematical term. Once you go beyond math you get into a realm of subjectivity.

Humanity is flawed and limited. Given original sin we are naturally set against God. You do not need to be rational to find God as emotion and faith can get you there. Yet it is the rational mind that knows perfection and understands perfection that also understands that God is the only path to that perfection. Faith does not require abandonment of the mind God has given you. notbeerlogic

[HonestDiscussioner]

"Yet it is the rational mind that knows perfection and understands perfection that also understands that God is the only path to that perfection."

So are you asserting here that only rational people believe in a perfect god? Or at least some version close to the god you believe in?

And also, what is your definition of perfection?

[rusty2029]

I am asserting that we have a mind that knows this life we experience is lacking and not up to our expectations. This sense of what a utopia would be like and how we should all be treating each other is mentioned by Blaise Pascal when he talks of the duality of man. I use the common definition of perfection and when it comes to a state of being perfect we don't have it yet can fix in our minds what it is. I also assert that our duality naturally has a part that is opposed to God.

[HonestDiscussioner]

Sorry I forgot about our convo for so long. Anyway . .

"I am asserting that we have a mind that knows this life we experience is lacking and not up to our expectations"

Which is better explained by drives to better oneself and consistently reach for more, as per evolutionary theory those that are motivated to continually improve their situation are more likely to survive than those that get lazy the moment they have food water and shelter.

[HonestDiscussioner]

The fact is sometimes we ARE satisfied with our lives completely and totally without any appeal to god. It often does not last, although some are better at it than others.

If your assertion was true, the only way to feel completely fulfilled in life would be to search for god, and yet this is not what we see. In fact, many Christians search for god and find themselves still lacking, even in that department. Mother Teresa is the perfect example.

[5thWatcher]

Your arguments fail to apply to the way in which I believe in God.

[HonestDiscussioner]

Yea I know. I used this as more of an "addendum on the topic" than a response meant to correct you.

[DazedSpy2]

like in the case of all things, you may not end up believing in the truth. Maybe not even the majority. For the longest time complete fairy tales were believed to be true by the majority [earth is flat]. Knowledge is not made by consensus, and a lack of consensus does not point to the evidence being inadequate, etc.

[DazedSpy2]

Why do some rational people not go to Christianity/theism?" I do not think others are irrational just for not accepting what I consider to be the truth. Nevertheless, I dont discount the irrationality of every person [including myself]. No one comes to any opinion on God/Faith purely based on the arguments, that would deny them their humanity. Obviously culture, society, up bringing, past experiences and so on have an effect. I think Christianity is the best explanation, but, in the case of god

[over18irish]

two camels in a tiny car. ;)

[rusty2029]

Like I said rationality is a subjective thing. I am not saying that only rational people believe in God. In fact I am making the point that it is easy and in our nature to reject God and want to reject God. How do we rightly divide our emotional and bias presuppositions against a need to only accept evidence that fits our bias? Finding God is more about receiving a revelation from God that gives you the evidence you need then trying to fit God or the absence of God into what we want to accept

[TburgPatrick]

It seems to me that true faith in God based neither of belief nor logic. Sort of like how I know I exist. I know I exist. I can't prove it logically, but I don't accept it on faith either. It's just true to me. Not only that, but my faith is the basis for everything in my life; it's not a "part of" my life. True faith is entirely practical. I think recovering alcoholics in AA, for example, demonstrate true faith in God.