Josephus and Jesus - Textual Reliability

Dr John DIckson investigates the reliability of Jewish historian Josephus' mentions of Jesus.

Category:

Education

Tags:

• josephus
• jesus
• historical jesus
• antiquities
• jewish historians
• did jesus exist
• evidence for jesus
• history
• historians
• christ
• yeshua
• yahsua
• yahashua
• isa
• esa

[eventhisidistaken]

@SOFSoldier1 Yep. You got me. My spelling errors prove I'm wrong about everything I've ever asserted. You really should consider running as a VP candidate. You are much more qualified than Dan Quayle.

[SOFSoldier1]

@eventhisidistaken yet-we know how to spell propaganda

[eventhisidistaken]

@zorkboy I've examined the evidence. It consists of a bunch of ancient texts, written during a time of rampant superstition, when the primary purpose of writing was propoganda. The evidence that Jesus actually rose from the dead is so laughably pathetic, that's it hard to believe anyone takes it seriously at all. Even the much touted Josephus writes about all kinds of magical nonsense. It isn't reasonable to simply believe everything you read.

[zorkboy]

@eventhisidistaken Yes people don't naturally rise from the dead, and are not wonder workers. That's the whole point. Historical events cannot be proven scientifically; attempting to do so is simply the incorrect methodology, like trying to discern whether a banana is tasty by sticking it in your ear. Your unwillingness to engage evidence indicates a worldview that is entirely skeptical of everything except itself. I urge you to engage the evidence as I did; it changed my mind about Jesus.

[eventhisidistaken]

The Bible records that Jesus rose from the dead. People don't rise from the dead. The Bible is not reliable. Q.E.D.

Our copies of Josephus record that Jesus was a wonder worker. There are no actual wonder workers. Our copies of Josephus are not reliable. Q.E.D.

Do you need help analyzing any other absurd ancient texts?

[boblackey1]

@AgrippaTheMighty Check it out for yourself. Even the oldest complete extant copies of John's Gospel do not have the story of the woman caught in adultery and Jesus saying "who is without sin cast the first stone" And the oldest extant copies of Mark's gospel do not contain an entire chapter. Many modern study Bibles are honest about this. At John 8 is an* and at the bottom of the page " the most ancient manuscripts do not contain these verses". It's a famous quote from Jesus.

[boblackey1]

@AgrippaTheMighty As to John's gospel, I was talking about the work of scholar A. F. Loisy or Loiesy (1857-1940) who was Roman Catholic but a critical scholar and for his work was kicked out of the Catholic church. His take on John is after the original was written around 90 CE (the P52 fragment dated 125CE only contains a few lines) others redacted, changed and introduced interpolations and even the oldest extant copies do not contain John 8 so Justin's copy is a ?

[boblackey1]

@AgrippaTheMighty First one can't be certain what Justin Martyr quoted and wrote as MOST of his works are said by his modern experts to BE LOST! But in what survives that is held by his experts to be genuine (some of is work is considered to be fakes) quotes Jesus often such as in 1 Apol 15-17 and Dial 17:3-4, 51:23&76 and his experts claim he is using Matthew and Luke. Apol 61: 4-5 is said to be a quote of John 3, 3-5 by many experts.

[AgrippaTheMighty]

@boblackey1 “Can you name any experts..” How many times do I have to say that I don’t give a rat’s ass to authority, and that I only care about evidence? Can you provide the actual writing of Martyr that clearly shows complete quoting from the gospel of John word for word like we can with his many OT quotes? No, you can’t and thus the paradox. Are you arguing that the people altered the purported Martyr’s John's gospel, but on the other hand, his OT quotes remained intact? Why?

[boblackey1]

@AgrippaTheMighty Loisey holds that John's original gospel written in the late 1st century has some historical information and some legend. But what we read today is riddled with redactions, additions, interpolations etc so we actually have more than one author behind what we read today. Also of note is the oldest extant manuscripts of John's gospel do not contain the story of the woman caught in adultery in John 8 with Jesus saying "the one without sin cast the first stone".