Hillsong United-Salvation is here live

No I was actually arguing with 'ful' who claimed every word in the bible was to be believed. We are agreed that this is not the case. There's no straw man there. It is telling that a supposedly all powerful deity is unable to stop his holy word being thus misinterpreted. What I'm arguing with is ful's position that any book should be beleived without proper analysis.

According to your position that because the apostles died without recanting they must have been speaking the truth, wouldn't the same hold true for Jonestown massacre? Or the siege of Stalingrad for that matter? You are also making some big assumptions about the deaths of the apostles... can you tell me where you got your information from? How do we know, other than from partisan church teachings, that they were martyred?

Your argument that the Bible is false because of a mistranslation is a strawman, because the real Bible says "'eleph " which can also mean a company of soldiers. The Bible is not the problem, the problem is the interpretation.

You aren't really attacking what Christians believe. You are tearing down a position of your own making. Try arguing against what Christians really believe rather than cherry-picked misinterpretations.

The writers of the New Testament were persecuted for their ideas. What puts the apostles specifically in a unique position when compared with other martyrs is that they were in a position to know whether or not Jesus was a farce.

The truth is that they willingly chose torture, humiliation and death. It would make sense for them to deny Christ in order to avoid these results, it would also make sense to admit to lying. What doesn't make sense would be to die for something you know is a lie.

Its not that I want creationism to be untrue, its that it is untrue. My feelings have nothing to do with it.

But returning to our topic, what you're saying is that when the Bible says '1,000' men it isn't actually talking about 1,000 men it is mistranslated. Therefore the figures in the bible are wrong and

about 1,000 men it is mistranslated. Therefore the figures in the bible are wrong and not to be beileved. Which was the point I was making. In looking at the Bible one should remain sceptical and be on the look out for flaws, contradictions and exaggerations of which there are many.

There are many scientists who belive in a creator but far more who don't. The closer they are to relevant sciences (Genetics for example, the less likely they are to believe in

'creationism.' I think in relevant sciences the figure is something like 0.15% rely on 'faith' the others needing evidence).

As for your claimsof there being lots of evidence...why don't you produce some? Of course it would matter. If you could start producing clear, verifiable evidence in support of your beliefs I would change my own. Sadly, although we seeming agreement that the bible is not to be taken literally, there is no evidence for it being in any way true.

I don't want to be a jerk, but it seems You "want" Creationism to be wrong. I also feel like you have gotten your argument from someone else...This is not an original argument. and if you were to do more studying than you have, you would find that there are legitimate explanations to why there is a misunderstanding about this verse. There were not 800,000 men. All that the writers wanted the reader to know, was that there was alot of troops..

There are Many scientists who believe there is a Creator.People like Michael Behe.There is much evidence for a creator, but the question is, would you care if it was presented to you? If God were to confront you personally(and he does daily through the Holy Spirit), would you care to follow him? or would you just disbelieve because you dont WANT to believe?--Do you really want evidence?Try reading Lee Strobels' "Case for a Creator". He can show you "evidence"

I just did mycatistigger. The original language says that the number 1000 is not accurate. it just means a company of men. If you were so into trying to disprove the Bible maybe you should try a little harder at looking into my point. The Hebrew Says "eleph" which means: a thousand, company a company of men under one leader, troops