Richard Dawkins still has a sore foot

A follow up to my video ''Richard Dawkins shot in the foot by Roger Penrose''

Category:

Science & Technology

Tags:

• rodger penrose
• richard dawkins
• thunderfoot
• william lane craig
• universe
• Time Universe

[Surroundx]

Either God has always existed, or matter has. Take your pick.

[pestmanpat]

@Surroundx So the question is since we can not go beyond the beginning to find the answer what does the nature of the existing universe tell us.Does it show evidence for random cosmic evolution or intelligent design ?

[Surroundx]

@pestmanpat Nothing can exist immaterially, including god. So whatever the cause of the big bang, if there was one, must be material in nature. If god has no physical body, and an angel has no physical body, how are they different from each other?

[pestmanpat]

@Surroundx Yet scientists tell us that what ever was responsible for the first event was Immaterial. I believe the first cause,an intelligent agent consisted of some form of energy.It is said that to a photon for example space time does not exist so what is material is dependent on the reference point.

[Surroundx]

@pestmanpat Scientists don't tell us that the cause of the singularity was immaterial. The most plausible theory so far is that it was produced by quantum fluctuations from an energy field. Space time itself does not exist, so everything is relative. You didn't rebut my point that nothing can exist immaterially?

[pestmanpat]

@Surroundx You didn't rebut my point that nothing can exist immaterially?

Well i am not sure i want to or need to.If matter is an expression of energy or matter is just bound energy then the two are in a sense the same thing.Yet as matter is a particular expression of energy it is expressed as ''material''..So when i say that

science and in fact many theists state that the universe came from an immaterial cause

that's what i would be referring to. cont-

[pestmanpat]

@pestmanpat Interestingly both atheists and theists agree that energy is eternal in that it can neither be created or destroyed.Its not that much of a stretch then in light of the abundance of apparent design in the cosmos that the original form of energy possessed intelligence.

[Surroundx]

@pestmanpat Energy is not immaterial. A significant portion of the mass of the universe itself is dark energy. Therefore dark energy has mass. And anything which is immaterial has no physical "body", for want of a better word, and so it cannot have mass. Energy is material.

[jrswordfish1]

Agreed that on the hindsight the probability of a Creator with all his sadistic qualities as attributed in religious jargon IS as probable as the best scientific theories out there.

But the crux is that the proof of scientific hypothesis which is direct or indirect is based on other facts and theories which have been established without contradictions based on data and mathematical calculations which yields a conditional probability higher than creator theory or any other unscientific one.

[skatejam7]

@pestmanpat Go to 29:14 if you don't want to watch it all...