This is the Record of John - Gibbons

Orlando Gibbons' This is the Record of John

Category:

Music

Tags:

• orlando
• gibbons
• record of john
• english
• choral
• choir
• anthem
• verse
• gospel of john
• anglican

[SuperGAMMA77]

I'd like to get from you the sheet music you post in here.. PLEASE.

[morphthing1]

@SuperGAMMA77 cpdl.org is where I get most, fantastic site

[riana21688]

i'm an atheist, but "i am the voice of one crying in the wilderness" always gives me shivers.

[morphthing1]

exactly, you don't need to be a Christian to love the music being sung

[DonRaphel]

which choir? They sound great

[morphthing1]

Magdalen College, Oxford

[NihilNominis]

I'm a Catholic, but nonetheless I love this music. ;)

[1banders]

@StrewthMcGinty1 If they didn't care greatly about pitch consistency, why are historic winds and organs tuned at about the same pitch? In his "Syntagma Musicum" Michael Praetorious (1571-1621) describes and accounts for the pitches of instruments used in his day. The choice of pitch was not arbitrary. The quote you cite reflects the general lack of clarity, specificity and accuracy of descriptions given in treatises of the time rather than indifference to choice of pitch.

[1banders]

@StrewthMcGinty1 No one in Gibbons' day wrote more than 2 flats in the key signature. They thought in terms of modes, not keys; the purpose of the flats was to transpose the mode to a "key" suitable for performance at the normally used pitch. The Ab scoring, transposing the original up a minor 3rd, reflects the editor's desire to make the piece fit the voice ranges of a modern mixed voice choir performing at A440. Historic pitches are determined from analysis of historic winds & organ pipes.

[StrewthMcGinty1]

@1banders No I don't - my point is that I don't think that in the Renaissance they greatly cared about pitch consistency. I'm ignorant as to whether we know the pitch of the organs Gibbons used. My very first comment was simply to clarify that Gibbons didn't write it in four flats as shown in the video.

[1banders]

@StrewthMcGinty1 Do you assume that informal domestic performances of Gibbons verse anthems would be pitched lower than church performances? Did you know that viols can be tuned to A465 (Renaissance wind pitch) without breaking the top string? The viols and strings in Bach's famous early cantata BWV 106 tuned to A465 organ pitch.

[1banders]

@StrewthMcGinty1 Historically, the choice of pitch has been based on the design of wind instruments. Renaissance tuning was based on the design of Renaissance winds. The various Late Baroque chamber pitches were influenced by the design of winds coming from France since the late 17th c. Modern A440 tuning (adopted in the 1950s) was the result of lobbying by American wind manfacturers.

[1banders]

@StrewthMcGinty1 I'm a viol player, quite familiar with the treatise. I just played 6-part Gibbons fantasies yesterday in a viol consort. When Bach performed his church music in Weimar, they tuned to A465 organ pitch (as did Schuetz). Years alter when Bach reused his Weimar cantatas in Leipzig, where A415 chamber pitch was used, he transposed the music up a whole step because the parts were otherwise too low for singers and instruments. The same principle would apply to Gibbons' verse anthems.

[StrewthMcGinty1]

@1banders

RE, original performance, there are two contexts - the church context, and informal domestic performance. This piece, and many other religious pieces from the time, are found in published books of madrigals - hence the viol parts, which are unlikely to have been used in church performance. And as for tuning a viol, at least one treatise says you should tune the top string until it is about to snap and tune downwards from there! Pitch in the renaissance was, I think, highly relative.

[1banders]

@StrewthMcGinty1 Yes. The original score or performing parts appear in F.

But tuned to what pitch? Don't assume to A440. Gibbons' choir would have tuned to organ pitch, which was based on Renaissance wind pitch, which was at least A465. A465 is about a 1/2 step above A440. So this performance sounds at least a 1/2 step too low.

The Ab transposition in the score shown here was contrived by the editor to accomodate modern mixed voice choirs.

[MrSbunk]

Though many of you have pointed out that this is the original pitch, I still like the a-minor version. :)