Plato's Euthyphro Dilemma: God's Moral Authority - The Atheist Experience #605

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Plato's Euthyphro Dilemma: God's Moral Authority (The Atheist Experience #605 with Matt Dillahunty and Jeff Dee).

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The Euthyphro dilemma is found in Plato's dialogue Euthyphro, in which Socrates asks Euthyphro: "Is the pious (τὸ ὅσιον) loved by the gods because it is pious, or is it pious because it is loved by the gods?"

In monotheistic terms, this is usually transformed into: "Is what is moral commanded by God because it is moral, or is it moral because it is commanded by God?" The dilemma has continued to present a problem for theists since Plato presented it and it is still an object of theological and philosophical debate.

To understand the difficulties the philosophers experience to come to terms with the adjective "ὅσιος", it is important to note that it carries a double meaning of "hallowed" and "profane": "hallowed" in the sense that what is "ὅσιος" is dependent on the divine, as opposed to "δίκαιος", which is justice as promulgated by human lawmakers, and "profane" in the sense that what is "ὅσιος" are actions which take place in the sphere of human relations, as opposed to "ἱερός", which refers anything religiously dedicated to the gods. Thus, the very term "ὅσιος" embodies the crux of the dilemma, viz., the attempt to separate "piety" from the divine sphere as something that can stand on its own in the human sphere.

The monotheistic version of the dilemma, replacing τὸ ὅσιον with "moral" or "good", and οἱ θεοί with "God" is still the object of theological and philosophical debate.

• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthyphro_dilemma

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[StrattackEX]

If someone has said this already then fair enough. But like..  some of histories greatest achievements involved god in one way or another :/

From Martin luther king for human equality, to even Einstein with scientific awareness. The very idea of "GOD", has done more generational good than bad right?.

So why EVEN look for a method of hating him :/ or trying to theorise his absence?...

Bare negativity

[TheAtheistExperience]

@StrattackEX

- "some of histories greatest achievements involved god in one way or another :/ ... The very idea of "GOD", has done more generational good than bad right?. So why EVEN look for a method of hating him :/ or trying to theorise his absence?... Bare negativity"

Maybe their belief in astrology and homeopathy also did some people good, but how is that relevant?

[JohannMint]

Thanks for this and thanks for explaining this tired old faith-head cop out about god's nature being good.

[Sybsop]

I just watched William Lane Craig "answer" the euthyphro dilemma in true christian fashion.

Which means that he simply repeated the canard that god is the highest being imaginable therefore all morality comes from god, because his very nature is good.

Which is nothing short of just a cop-out. Because if god is omnipotent he can change his own nature at will. And we're back to a wholly arbitrary standard of morality.

[doombow666]

@StrattackEX But like....for most of history religion has kept the world into the dark ages by slowing down scientific progress and by causing massive comflicts. Without religion we might have gotten much further as a species.

[ophios]

I love the "no morality if you don't have a god argument" because it's based on nothing, no logic, no proof, just "well I think X, IT MUST BE TRUE LETS KILL ATHEISTS"

[MrZrod24]

@StrattackEX No hate or negativity in my heart just rationality. I have accepted religion as somewhat of a necessary evil. The fact that you attribute scientific breakthroughs to god is laughable. Religious Fundamentalists would kill scientists/philosophers for committing heresy. Had it not been for religion, who knows how much further along technologically we would be? Religion has corrupted the minds of millions; rational people know it today and the founding fathers knew it then.

[fredbloggs02]

Morality is the invention of the slave become masters imposed on the healthy to make them sick. Nietzsche was right. It has become far, far too comfortable a proposition, no longer earned; but imposed in cold blood. If you think you know what morality is "peace and love all the world through" good on you, I wouldn't dream of standing between the two of you. That only betrays a heart all too willingly disposed to servility and far far from righteousness and yet further from truth.