John Marsh Brazilian Jiu jitsu vs Kung Fu Challenge.flv

John Marsh Brazilian Jiu jitsu vs Kung Fu Challenge.flv

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[BluePittbull666]

wing tsun is useless against brazilian jiu jitsu or MMA.

[datanyc004]

@evelsteev

He got him. This doesn't mean much because the truth of the matter is that when you compare martial arts there isn't one better than the other. Do you know why? Simple... It depends on the fighter and skill set. Do you know how hard or even impossible it will be to truly answer 1000's of years of the old question... "Which Martial Art is Best?"

[RafaelSantosRS]

"John Marsh Brazilian Jiu jitsu vs Kung Fu Challenge"

Who's the other fighter? Looks like a fake fight.

[TheGoogler77]

You are taking this internet thing too seriously.

[TheGoogler77]

@ZomBLord naaaaaah stop whining ;-P this is just a friendly debate. Sorry if you took it the wrong way.

[ZomBLord]

@TheGoogler77 And if the styles you listed are the "only real styles" and the style I practice isn't "fighting like a man", of course that's going to generate a competitive atmosphere. Boldly insults are hardly passive.

[ZomBLord]

@TheGoogler77 It's always a competition. Each one is trying to make the other concede that certain points are valid and certain points are not.

[TheGoogler77]

@ZomBLord I didn't realize it was a competition, but ok.

[ZomBLord]

@TheGoogler77 Now, we could undoubtedly debate this forever, so I forfeit the argument, and declare you the victor.

[ZomBLord]

@TheGoogler77 3. See my previous comment: "The stancework you see in all the fancy forms serves little purpose other than conditioning. While it provides very good conditioning, it is abandoned in actual combat, with a few exceptions."

There are only 3 stances: forward, balanced, and back.

I'm not sure what you mean by "one dimensionalism". Wing Chun certainly is one dimensional. Toe-to-toe stances, and almost all arm techniques. Most other styles are pretty broad, though.

[ZomBLord]

@TheGoogler77 1. It's never been about animal mimicry. Those are just descriptive terms. The whole "monks basing everything off of animals" is just a legend, nothing more. And no, they're not unique to Kung Fu. Few techniques are unique to their respective discipline.

2. It is easy. It's very easy. The man in the video had a forward facing stance and no gaurd up, and his kick was off balance; I doubt he had any real skill in anything.

[TheGoogler77]

@ZomBLord At least BJJ has been battled tested in real street fights and NHB/Vale Tudo matches. Can't say the same thing for traditional kung fu. Now Sanda/Sanshou is another story.

[TheGoogler77]

@ZomBLord 1. Grasping and clawing at something (like your eyes) has nothing to do with animal mimicry. It's a natural technique, especially if someone is in a desperate situation. In other words, you can learn throat grabs and eyes gouges without learning "animal claw" kung fu.

2. It's not easy to use those techniques against someone who's trying to knock you out and knows how to fight. Like the video above.

3. Awkward stances and one-dimensionalism of KF turns me off.

[ZomBLord]

@TheGoogler77 But you make some very good points. A lot of modern Kung Fu schools, particularly those involved heavily in tournaments don't teach actual techniques, and are more concerned with looking impressive and winning point sparring matches.

It is very disappointing to see what Chinese Martial Arts have dwindled down to, but if you can find a traditional school, I am certain you will find that Kung Fu IS a "real style" as you put it.

[ZomBLord]

@TheGoogler77 Also, Wing-Chun is not a very good style to judge Kung Fu on. Wing Chun is all about the arms, and offers little knowledge of other aspects of fighting. Wing Chun is something that should not be used on its own.

Also, there are plenty of Kung Fu styles that teach Grappling. Shaolin Changquan and Taijiquan both offer teaching in grappling techniques.

[ZomBLord]

@TheGoogler77 I dislike the "hugging" moves in styles such as Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, but I recognize that many of the techniques are useful, just not the ones that immobilize the opponent, but leave you both vulnerable.

But in every street fight I've seen, striking has been more useful than ground grappling.

Brazilian Jiu Jitsu doesn't encompass all of fighting effectively, so before you insult another, much older school, you should first recognize that your own isn't perfect.

[ZomBLord]

@TheGoogler77 Then why use them to discount the whole range of Kung Fu? You said that Kung Fu practitioners should "stop trying to mimic animals" and "fight like a man", so if you have no problem with the animal-like techniques (the animal names were just describing the techniques, not the bases of them), then what is your problem with the style?

You can't discount a whole style because you don't like certain techniques. That's disrespectful and ignorant.

[ZomBLord]

@TheGoogler77 Kung Fu IS Chinese Martial arts. Kung Fu isn't a very specific term.

[TheGoogler77]

@ZomBLord I have no problem with the grasping/clawing techniques. It's just that I think KF doesn't apply them correctly.

[ZomBLord]

@TheGoogler77 The stancework you see in all the fancy forms serves little purpose other than conditioning. While it provides very good conditioning, it is abandoned in actual combat, with a few exceptions.

Kneeling horse is a manner of trapping your opponent's arm/leg/neck with your legs, so you can hit him/her, or pull out a weapon and execute him/her.

Cat stance puts literally no weight on the front leg. It's a feint, and has saved me from several takedowns in the past.

[ZomBLord]

@TheGoogler77 Crane's beak and phoenix eye are both designed to strike a smaller space, increasing the pressure applied by the blow. The placement of fingers in crane's beak also add integrity to the blow, making it less likely to hurt your hand. It also conveniently allows you to fit all of your fingertips into a space the size of the average human eye socket (hint hint).

But those are nothing more than different ways to hit people. They aren't that different from other strikes.

[ZomBLord]

@TheGoogler77 The tiger claw is actually three techniques performed in sequence. It starts with a simple palm strike (far more useful than fists, and much less likely to hurt your hand) and then gouges and scratches. It causes blunt trauma and severe pain, but its only really practical use is gouging out eyes and tearing the face.

The praying mantis stuff is great for striking soft spots and pressure points, but not for much else.

Monkey fist is just like any other fist.

[ZomBLord]

@TheGoogler77 The leopard paw grabs the wrist, and uses the knuckles to cause pain to the softer underside of the wrist. It also noticeably improves traction when pulling the wrist backwards or pushing it forward, at the expense of a strong grip when your opponent moves his writs vertically; however, it is implied that you will not give your opponent the chance to do that.

[ZomBLord]

@TheGoogler77 I think I see the problem here. Your main problem is with the animal hand techniques. Perhaps you should examine them more closely. The eagle claw and leopard paw are both essentially the same as grabbing. The (Northern; I know very little of southern styles) eagle claw is suited to grab the trachea and pull it outward, whilst crushing it (you'll remember I mentioned we train our fingers to be as strong as we can make them).

[TheGoogler77]

@ZomBLord I think you are confusing KF with Chinese martial arts. KF isn't as ancient as some would have you believe.

[TheGoogler77]

@ZomBLord The eyes definitely, but you would have to really dig deep. Temples? Not so much. Many WW2 era marines can tell you that eyes and throat are the only two ways to kill a man bent on killing you. And there's no evidence that "dim mak" is real.

[TheGoogler77]

@ZomBLord I studied wing chun for a few months and read a couple of books on KF. Many of the older styles of KF were started by "families" and many were based on fighting like an insect, a bird, a cat, or a dragon (a non-existent creature, makes me wonder what dragon style comes from).

And can you tell me which styles of KF are "miltary-bases?"