Debate - Rabbi Meir Kahane vs. Prof. Alan Dershowitz, 1/4

Debate 1 Rabbi Meir Kahane vs. Prof. Dershowitz Part 1 of 4
Judaism vs. Democracy

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[refaelooooooo]

Rabbi meir rip was jewish fighter that fight against all the enemie of the jewish nation..

.''am israel hai''

[oc00011]

multiculturalism doesn't work in israel? you wouldn't have zionism without it. jews from russia, morocco, egypt, poland, ethiopia, yemen etc etc etc.. all contribute to israeli society and identity. the jewish nation has been revived. multiculturalism isn't without its problems e.g. russian drinking, & sadly now ethiopians being introduced to alcohol in the city - doesn't work well with them, nonetheless there's been many progressions, including both those ethnic examples. kahane's a fascist.

[DrAvrington]

First one must believe in the concept of truth or act according to a moral compass, which by the way was laid out specifically, according to our Western understanding, by Judaism and their belief in one God on His moral laws for both Jews and humanity to have any semblance of a functioning society. Therefore Socialists/Atheists; even Labor "Zionism' is exactly what you write dogmatic and without truth because everything is relative toward achieving/catering to a man made "utopia" re: Erev Rav.

[oc00011]

yehuda, rambam etc are interesting & can help as building blocks in understanding, but they're not to be taken as dogma, or necessarily truth to any particular level. marx can also help & also not to be dogmatised. i agree more with labor zionism.

"what makes one jewish"- we're fortunate enough to be a people that can debate on this, *for the sake of it*, we don't have to have an answer. non-religious jews like me say its a fluid & ever-progressing identity i.e. not saying "only this" is jewish.

[DrAvrington]

He sure was... No question about it.

[DrAvrington]

No, most based on ethics, reason, logic and....morality. Read Judah ha-Levi, Maimonides, Isaac Abravanel, Baruch Spinoza and others especially concerning their Zionist belief constructs. Much is predicated on religious Zionism and not secular/socialist "labor Zionism". No faith based though brought true progress founded on moral integrity and not the "change" of Marx's amoral Dialectical Materialist Communism. What makes one Jewish? Birth like Marx or through living like Kahane or Maimonides?

[oc00011]

"You are right re. lit./philos most because were based on their Torah teachings." - i disagree. it was because they were based on skeptical inquiry, reason, and dialectics. not the torah. the torah was our starting point, & it has some good values, & some immoral values too. 1 of the many things i'm proud of as a jew is our skepticism (which lead to so much development), the irony of our history, even rambam said 'the messiah will come...but he may tarry" :)

faith-based thought is the problem.

[DrAvrington]

It has and did just as it was intended to do re: Socialism. You are entirely right about Islam which is why Jews should recognize that fact and throw out all of their Communist and so called "Palestinian" People. Then you don't believe in morality. Moses was the first Zionist. Did he not lead the Jews out of Egyptian servitude back to their ancestral homelands? That was 1440BC. You are right re. lit./philos most because were based on their Torah teachings. All Religion is not the problem.

[oc00011]

"anti-culture"? look, i don't agree with everything marx wrote & i'm certainly not a communist, but dialectical materialism isn't "anti-culture". the realisation that culture, &even tradition, is dynamic & fluid and therefore necessitates reflection & free inquiry, doesn't do away with culture in the slightest. pre-babylonian jews were nothing like the jews of a few centuries later, & likewise those were nothing like us, at least most of us. our culture has been enriched (generalised statement).

[oc00011]

who says multiculturalism must mean open gates to everyone, of all allegiances?! of course it doesn't! many values in islamic scripture have no place in modern society. i would also do away with state support of many values in the scriptures of torah & of christian scripture. & i'm a proud zionist jew.

the literature & philosophies of jews throughout history have made phenomenally positive influence, long time AFTER the religious nonsense. THAT should be the focus of jewish&zionist identity.

[DrAvrington]

No insults whatsoever. Just truth. You are ignorant. Not an insult just the truth. Where do you think driving force behind Socialism and its anti-culture stem? "Dialectical - Materialism". Thanks for the message and regards...

[oc00011]

throwing insults? it doesn't reflect well on you buddy.

"shnei yehudim, shalosh de'ot". the common culture of the jewish nation Includes the intrinsically strong inclination towards dialectical thinking. there's many reasons why. just among polish jews of a particular village you'd see arguments/debates left right and centre, let alone between the umbrella terms ashkenazi & sfaradi. multicultural aspect of the modern jewish nation improves dialectics, in turn improving collective ideas & values.