The Purpose Driven Life - Rick Warren

Rick Warren talks about how church should be driven by Gods purposes so we can become more like Christ.
Rick Warren
Pastor & Author of "The Purpose Driven Life"
http://www.PurposeDriven.com

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• jul-20-09
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[jizzfish]

This is some funky logic, somebody should throw it away before it makes somebody sick.

[not25yet]

If we eliminate religious indoctrination & quit all initiations, you would find that you adapt more efficiently to life's demands automatically! People struggle to serve a god they can't comprehend at all, the wonder why the dont get results for trying. The bible has political agendas too! so people shouldn't think using the bible means god endorses all it says!

[SamWiseGingy]

@dogagas Say what you want about natural law, it still beats the hell out of revelation (Bible) because at least we have the means for understanding natural law. The same can not be said about the Holy Book which Warren relies on so heavily.

[dogagas]

@SamWiseGingy Natural Law just tells you what will happen, not whether it was a good thing or not. WHe you start saying, "This should happen", you have moved away from the domain or natural law. Natural law tells you, to quote Doug Stanhope, "When you sit on a tack, you bleed from the ass", it does not tell you whether this is something you should engage in or avoid.

[SamWiseGingy]

@dogagas Reason is able to discern natural law. In fact natural law is much less disputable than "divine ordinance."

[dogagas]

@SamWiseGingy How does Reason say that? Why is the perpetuation of a species a good thing? based on what? I agree with you that it is, but not because of some kind of rationed out logic, but because of something that enters the world of values. Justify to me that there is a reasonable justification for the perpetuation of human life. The Universe doesnt need us, the Earth would probably do better without us, and we havent even decided on what the purpose of human life is to begin with.

[SamWiseGingy]

@dogagas Reason says that perpetuation of the species is a good thing.

Warren hates reason and demands that reason be subject to faith.

[dogagas]

@SamWiseGingy I didn't say reason was useless, I said it was useless in determining values. Values cannot be empirically deciphered, they are simply felt. You say that life is some kind of reasoned value, but many rational people commit suicide. They refuse to keep living, they do not see the point. Having a healthy biosphere is reasonable once you have assumed that human survival is a good thing. But how did you come to that conclusion? Not by using reason, just intuition and emotion

[SamWiseGingy]

@dogagas You begin by saying that reason is useless and then you say that you are trying to have a reasonable conversation.

No we can use reason to determine our values. Saving the earth from polluters is the rational reasonable thing to do, because we know that without a healthy biosphere humanity is doomed. That is an example of a reasoned value. The better our reasoning the better our values.

[dogagas]

@SamWiseGingy Im trying to have a conversation, you are attacking me. Who's uncapable of critical thought?

[SamWiseGingy]

@dogagas This comment is Exhibit A for the case that believers are generally incapable of critical thought concerning their own beliefs.

[dogagas]

@SamWiseGingy Reason is useless when it comes to the world of values. It works brilliantly as a tool once our values are decided, but it cannot help us decide our values. So you cannot use reason to determine why a life should be saved, but once you decide that is a value, you can use reason to find a cure for cancer. This si because the only way to prove a value is good, is to use circular logic. Freedom is good cause it makes us free, and being free is good. Do you see what I mean?