Tim Keller - Will everyone be saved?

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[etherform66]

@becuz1 haha.. first and foremost the word 'hell' is both a word and a doctrine buit upon a word that does not appear one single time in the original hebrew and greek. The word hell is translated from 4 words - sheol, hades, gehenna and tatarus. Which one of these words scripturally expresses a state of everlasting torment in flames? do tell.

[CosmicDamian]

@becuz1 I think you are confused as to the meaning of the word orthodoxy. RC church is the standard bearer of Christian teaching, and has been for the last 2000 years. Your reliance on the Bible is of course correct, but you seem not to appreciate that what comprises the New Testament was decided by a council of Catholic Bishops... Anyway...W hat is this "1996 Confession" you describe? I can find no references to it, do you have a link, or search terms you can share?

[becuz1]

@CosmicDamian To say that the RC church's teaching today as orthodoxy is a bit of a stretch. There are serious problems in the RC church that even I wasn't made aware of until recently. Have a look at the 1996 Confession of the RC church and it reads WELL outside of orthodoxy, even by traditional Catholic standards. My standard of orthodoxy is the Bible, not the panderings of men that want to please an increasing politically correct culture. We practice the Lord's Supper weekly, to His glory

[CosmicDamian]

@becuz1 To refute the RC (and Orthodox) position on real presence of the Lord in the Eucharist makes your use of the words "heresy" and "orthodoxy" in any context a bit of a strech.

[becuz1]

@CosmicDamian You would have to ask Tim. I don't know off the top of my head where he stands on the issue. To claim that heresy includes the doctrines of transubstantiation would be a bit of a stretch (to put it kindly). The RC position of transubstantiation as spelled out by the Fourth Lateran Council in 1215 vs. Luther's consubstantiation vs. Calvin's emphasis on remembrance is of interesting debate. I personally hold to Calvin's understanding, but feel God is present in the ceremony.

[CosmicDamian]

@becuz1 Speaking of heresy, does Tim Keller believe in the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist? Do you?

[becuz1]

@etherform66 First and foremost, if you don't believe in the orthodox teachings of eternal hell, you are considered a heretic. Hell is mentioned numerous times in the bible, including Jude 7, 13; Matt. 8:12; 13:42, 50; 22:13; 24:51; 25:30; 2 Thess.1:7-9; 2 Peter 3:7; 1 Thess.5:3; Rev. 20:10; Luke 16:23. Your problem is that you want to save God from Himself, you want to dictate to God that in order to be loving, He cannot possibly punish willing sinners for eternity. Good news is Jesus!

[becuz1]

@386ABC May I offer a suggestion? You may disagree with Tim Keller (which if you are in this capacity actually makes you a heretic) is fine, but to say that he doesn't know his bible is nothing short of idiotic. I don't like being harsh, but your statement just discredits any argument you may have had.

[etherform66]

@becuz1 "no christian would stand behind such a terrible teaching" ... hahahahah.. you serious? YOU stand behind - and ferverently endorse a teaching - that declares that Jesus is going to ruthlessly torture men women and children in literal fire, for trillions of unending aions without mercy and without ANY redemptive purpose in mind - AND, you call this 'good news'! It boggles the mind.

[j919or]

@386ABC "last enemy to be destroyed is death ""

Paul is speaking to believers and therefore this applies to believers.

Jesus spoke of eternal torment and the flame of fire for those that were dead. This is in synch with outerdarkness and weeeping and gnashing teeth for eternity outside of Gods presence will feel like fire.