Did Jesus Rise from the Dead? - Debate - Mike Licona vs Richard Carrier
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Group hallucinations are very rare.... But so are the resurrections. Is that which is less rare more plausible?
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@Xfodder4uX I mean if you are really interested in what happened, don't you look for accounts that come as close to the events as possible? That is precisely what we have with the NT. That is exactly why books like Judas were left out. Yet to complain that it is unfair that they are left out and complain about the evidence that is actually better and earlier seems to stem from nothing but, as I said earlier, prejudice. Why have this prejudice and where does it come from?
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@Xfodder4uX What is the date of Judas compared to, say Luke? Luke is roughly dated around 70 AD and Luke was a traveling companion with Paul and others. Judas on the other hand was written around 300AD and written in Coptic. This is where I really have an issue. Why complain about Judas when it is over 250 years after Jesus' lifetime, yet look down on Luke who was traveling with eyewitnesses and writing MUCH closer to the time of the events, w/in living memory of eyewitnesses?
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@Xfodder4uX Well, no, its not a hodgepodge. It was books that were recognized as being the best sources. Hence they were collected in the first place. The other books you refer to come from far later sources and hence were not collected bc the cannon was put together with truth in mind.
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@Xfodder4uX So if we wouldn't object to other areas who in ancient history have these same issues, why should we when it comes to Jesus? The only reason I can see is sheer bias and prejudice. Moreover, I wouldn't agree with your assessment of the NT to begin with. 1) The Gospels certainly reflect eyewitness testimony. 2) Everyone has bias so every source contains a bias one way or the other. 3) "Conflicting" accounts do not = false accounts. In fact they show less fabrication.
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@Xfodder4uX So if we wouldn't object to other areas who in ancient history have these same issues, why should we when it comes to Jesus? The only reason I can see is sheer bias and prejudice. Moreover, I wouldn't agree with your assessment of the NT to begin with. 1) The Gospels certainly reflect eyewitness testimony. 2) Everyone has bias so every source contains a bias one way or the other. 3) "Conflicting" accounts do not = false accounts. In fact they show less fabrication.
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@Xfodder4uX Thanks for clarifying. So you are saying there are (1) no eyewitness accounts of Jesus' life, (2) the NT accounts are biased, and (3) the stories that we do have contradict? If this is the case, your biased view of Jesus is not one that is appropriately applied to other figures from ancient history. Are you willing to reject all Roman historians who refer to Roman history? Of course not, that makes no sense. (Who knows Rome better than a Roman.).
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@CapsHockey100 Because that really weakens your argument.
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@CapsHockey100 And also, the New Testament is just a hodgepodge of different books that only by sheer luck became canon. There are many other books out there with just as much right to be in the bible as mathew mark luke and john but could not make it because fallible men decided not to put them there. So if you want to use the bible to prove jesus existed, how do you explain not using the book of judas as evidence? Is it because it conflicts with all the other books?
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@wfenio: Craig only does 'beat the clock' debates. He's a very good debater. That's it. His arguments aren't very convincing, just his method of presenting them. I'd like to see him debate someone in a conversational format
Roaddogg666 7 months ago 10
a natural doubter would believe "Bill" Craig if he called up to talk about seeing aliens? this guy is weak, immature. i know this girl, she's smart, therefore it couldn't have been a hallucination or dream. seriously? you're going to bring that garbage to an audience?
wubbadubdub 3 months ago 2