4/8 Christopher Hitchens vs Robert Wright on Religion
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@huwrj Wright got it - but he was amazed by a guy who demands the freedom of being able to insult anyone for their religiousness, at the same time claiming to be insulted if a criminal like Hitler is called an atheist - allowing Hitler entry into the same exclusive club that Hitchens is a member of. I think Hitchens was very well aware of the ridiculousness of his standpoint and changed the topic quickly, bringing up the buckle on German soldier's belts, blaming the church, etc.
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Hitchens was essentially saying "If you say that Hitler was an atheist like me, then it is false and I am also insulted by that.". Wright didn't get it. Hitchens made sense, Wright was just flailing around and not moving on to the next point.
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wow this is the first time I've seen Hitchens not holding his ground
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There's no evidence of Hitler's allegiance to any religious organisation during Nuremberg, but then, Hitchens knows this only too well, of course.
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That threw me off too. I think he meant to say that grouping him with socialistic regimes that have caused suffering is odious. He mixed up the two (I think).
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Hitch is drunk.Quality
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@RoninSanjuro - Wright doesn't say that Hitler did what he did because he was a nonbeliever. Where did you get that from? Why do you wantonly misinterpret what Wright said. Are you a moron? And yes that was intended to be insulting. Get over it!
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Hitchens reaction is bizzare. I'm astounded by it. Wright said that Hitler, Mao and Stalin seemed not to have been theists and Hitchens takes this to mean that Wright is grouping his opinions with that of National Socialism. Have I missed something here? That seems a complete non-sequitur to me.
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Love to see Wright give Atheists some hell. Eventually, when the Atheists have put the Fundies in their place, more intellectuals like Wright will rise up, and give the Atheists their hat and coat, "Good job, thanks for clearing the land for the rest of us. Ciao!" (PS Hope Hitch gets well soon. Love you man!)
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Hitchens is absolutely correct, and Wright is absolutely ignorant on this point they (so loudly) discuss. It is extremely insulting to suggest that Hitler was a secular person, and did what he did because of secular non-believing reasons. This is absolutely unfounded, and there is not one shred of evidence to support the idea that Hitler was a non-believer.
As Hitchens said, the buckles are just one piece of evidence supporting his clear beliefs. Mein Kampf clearly demonstrates this as well.
IanBillings00 2 years ago 5
Okay, I manage to get (more or less) halfway through this debate before typing this but Wright is a fucking moron.
The transition from [Hitchens] "I'm sorry but Hitler was not a secularist" to [Wright] "So, no-one is allowed to hurt your feelings" is at about the level of an eleven year-old.
Embarrassing.
gefan3 2 years ago 2