12-Step Programs - A.E. #582

The Atheist Experience is a weekly cable access television show in Austin, Texas geared at a non-atheist audience. Every week we field live calls from atheists and believers alike, and you never know what you're going to get! Sometimes it can get quite feisty indeed! You don't want to miss it.

Episode: #582
7 December, 2008
Topic: Another scamlet: "spin". Don talks about how God is like a lemon automobile that can only be sold through deception and slick marketing.

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[klangsteiner]

For those who's addiction to drugs and/or alcohol has landed them in the court system, I believe that a secular alternative to AA should be provided. Unfortunately, few exist, especially in the city where I live. BTW, the recidivism rates for AA vs. alternatives is not well documented for 2 reasons. AA manipulates their stats and there are no good control groups to provide stats.

[kyokumajr]

Though Even the few studies that have been done, show that the effectiveness rate is the same as if you would not have gone to one of these groups, but rather quit by yourself.

[ChuckyJesus666]

Years ago I dated a woman who was in AA. There's no doubt that she had replaced one addiction with another. She was freaked that I didn't believe in god and she dumped me because she found the idea so threatening to her whole higher power crap.

[kyokumajr]

Wow... that disturbing... :(

[WaywardSonCRO]

that crap works in the same percentage of cases as the recovery without the program works with just a power of the will, so it's for ignorant and weak people

[BlatzBeer]

@klangsteiner I was in a Texas Dept. of Corrections substance abuse program, and we were given a choice between AA, NA, Winner's Circle and SOS (Secular Organizations for Sobriety) groups. Unfortunately, out in the world, it was hard for me to find an SOS group close enough to attend weekly.

By the way, the federally-funded NIAAA did a 2001-2002 survey of 43,000 Americans and found that 75% of folks who found sobriety from alcohol dependence did it WITHOUT treatment or support groups (AA).

[oneadamtwelve86]

when i used to go to AA i was a christian. and i loved it. i cant say im against it now, the 12 steps are really good although i cant say they all are, some are just saying prayers.

looking back now it is a little bogus with the whole praying and god stuff, but working the 12 steps really can change a person.

really one of the best parts of the program is just the fellowship. they usually dont want to admit it, but its common sense, people who need to be sober do better with others like them

[K1dNaStyLovesElectro]

As a recovering Addict and an Atheist I'm sad that these guys bash on the 12 steps even though they do not suffer from this intense disease <-- progressive and usually fatal. and don't really know anything about it.

YOU GET TO MAKE UP YOUR OWN "GOD" IN THE !2-step PROGRAMS :D It can be ANYTHING. When I first went to meetings my higher power was Group. Of. Drunks (god) Anything will work as long as it gets you out of your diseased way of thinking Addicts and aloholics please thumb this up

[obgfoster]

I have known atheists who used A.A. They spelled "God" as "Group of Drunks" or "Good Orderly Direction" and never called on a skydaddy to get them sober

[moopism]

@lovefactorygirl Yes, it is good for them, and it just goes to show that the 12 step program and the big book are the addicts' version of the placebo; it's still a sugar pill.

[lovefactorygirl]

@moopism Good for them :]

[moopism]

@lovefactorygirl One recent study found that 80% of all alcoholics who recover for a year or more do so on their own, some after being unsuccessfully treated. When a group of these self-treated alcoholics was interviewed, 57% said they simply decided that alcohol was bad for them.